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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

Videodrome said:
I don't believe that at all, unless he ends up being a candidate for Etobicoke North.

Also, I have nothing against Christine Elliott and wouldn't be too bothered if she became PC leader.
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Id love to see Elliott as well. I just thing she is going to split with Mulroney to some extent and Ford will be able to make a run here.
 
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animatronic said:
5.1 (c) supports the aims, principles and objects of the Party and the policy resolutions adopted at the Constitutionally-mandated 2017 policy process, and so confirms in the prescribed form; and
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I apologize for my oversight, and stand corrected.

I actually searched the document for the word 'platform'; it had occured to me they renamed it a 'policy process' LOL
 
PinkLucy said:
Conservative voters love tax cuts.
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Yeahhhh...having scoured the web for what Caroline has stated in vids and on record, she is parroting the 'set line', and even a week ago, things were stated on the Agenda program as to how *everyone* PC is now agreed to 'follow the script'. I have concerns. If she 'follows the script' (and she has mimed some of the points) then she's not going to win on that platform.

The Cons have immersed themselves in their own likeness, (including body waste) and then expect everyone else to worship at the marvel of their being.

In the event, The Agenda is always superlative viewing:

Cynthia Mulligan very much impressed me, btw, but many of them, save the PC candidate Gillian Smith, who rhymed off dogma like a good robot, (programmed complete with exophthalmos) had very interesting comments.

Bear in mind this was a week ago, and quite a few things have transpired since then. I don't see how anyone can tout "the little blue book" and expect, at least in urban areas, to get elected. It's a stale approach based on Fed Lib's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(Liberal_Party_of_Canada)

It's 25 years out of date. Maybe they can wear bell-bottom pants and Paisley shirts while touting it? And to the sound of the Carpenters in the background?

If it comes down to "More of the Same" then Wynne wins by default. It's *CHANGE* that people will flock to.
 
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Videodrome said:
Kansas slashed their taxes to the point that the state couldn't balance a budget.
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In fact, most US states, since balanced budgets are the law, are deeply in debt, just not on the books. They 'outsource' the debt. I scoff every time a rightist zealot compares Ontario's debt to US States. Even though Ontario is creative in keeping a lot of debt off the books, it pales compared to US states when the same accounting parameters are used.
 
steveintoronto said:
In fact, most US states, since balanced budgets are the law, are deeply in debt, just not on the books. They 'outsource' the debt. I scoff every time a rightist zealot compares Ontario's debt to US States. Even though Ontario is creative in keeping a lot of debt off the books, it pales compared to US states when the same accounting parameters are used.
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We provide more services then US states as well.

Healthcare is a good example.
 
narduch said:
We provide more services then US states as well.

Healthcare is a good example.
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I think we all can agree, (well, most of us) that the main point for most isn't the amount of taxes, it's what they're spent on.

Some of the most right-of-centre nations in Europe *accept* 'higher' taxes, as they get multiplicative returns for their 'investment' if that investment is well-managed. There's good reason to use the term 'Commonwealth'.

Nations like Sweden, which many consider a 'Leftist Paradise' are in fact governed Right of Centre at this time, but with few exceptions, governed well, with all government business open for examination save for national defence ones deemed secret.
 
To be honest, this string is more electric than the newer 'general candidates' one, and I believe I mentioned the dearth of recent polls (at least the last few weeks) which means many of us are guessing, albeit considered guessing, of what they are.

NatPost has this up (a good article on Elliot, and I must admit, I admire the lady, I don't care what her politics are, she stands tall for someone who has lost her husband recently)
[...]
“Pretty clear message that there’s a base for Doug Ford and there’s a base for Christine Elliott,” said pollster Greg Lyle of Innovative Research, referring to data he published this week. In his survey 24 per cent of respondents picked Elliott among their top three choices in a hypothetical field of nine candidates, while 16 per cent had Ford and Mulroney in their top three.

Elliott, a lawyer by trade, had the highest “net favourability” rating at plus-26 per cent: just five per cent of respondents said they had a negative view of her, while 31 per cent had a positive one. Ford’s rating, by contrast, was minus-26.

Lyle polled the general public, however, not party members, and this would be Elliott’s third attempt at the leadership running as a centrist voice of reason. In the 2009 race, she criticized eventual winner Tim Hudak as a throwback to the party’s mid-1990s glory years: “What happened in 1995 is not the solution for 2009,” she said. “We have to grow our party.” That message was good enough for third place behind both Hudak and social-conservative candidate Frank Klees.
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http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...ario-progressive-conservative-leadership-race

“What happened in 1995 is not the solution for 2009,” she said. She always was the softer side of Joe, and all the more credit to her to have the vision, the stamina, to forge ahead.

For either her or Mulroney, there's going to be a bit of a struggle to tell the "team" that they'd better get 'up to speed' on the times. I sincerely hope, if it isn't already arranged, for Elliot and Mulroney to have a pact of support for each other come the time for one to concede.

That Party needs both of them at the top.

Is it just me, or is there something...Jeez...like a used-car salesman about Fedeli? "Any Palladini is a Pal of Mine"

Jul 25, 2010 - A Clever Distraction: "Any Palledini is a Pal of Mine" Before entering politics, Al Palledini was the owner of the Pine Tree Ford Lincoln dealership in Woodbridge, Ontario. He was best known for his slogan "Any Palladini is a pal of mine" and a series of television ads created by a young Rick Moranis.

A Clever Distraction: "Any Palladini is a Pal of Mine" - Aberhart and ...
harpercrusade.blogspot.com/2010/07/clever-distraction-any-palladini-is-pal.html
 
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narduch said:
I agree.

And really with the Liberals its more about how much money has been squandered on corruption and bad management, with zero accountability.
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Exactly. There is no doubt we need to raise taxes to pay for better healthcare and infrastructure, but with the amount of waste and inexcusable decisions. I almost expect the Liberal to win as they have the powerful union vote, and oddly the NDP don't seem to be making much noise. Whoever wins from the Cons has to rally the usual non voter with a strong message
 
OneCity said:
Exactly. There is no doubt we need to raise taxes to pay for better healthcare and infrastructure, but with the amount of waste and inexcusable decisions. I almost expect the Liberal to win as they have the powerful union vote, and oddly the NDP don't seem to be making much noise. Whoever wins from the Cons has to rally the usual non voter with a strong message
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I think we have to separate the political dogma in the name of 'which party do you support' from the reality. It's not a Lib v Con tax rate argument, contrary to what many pundits want you to think, so it's refreshing to see we three at least (and I'm sure others) are in agreement on this. I think for all the shortcomings of US health care on one hand, and the UK's National Health on the other, we support our own health system, albeit with the need for constant tweaks and accounting oversight.

What we can't lose sight of is this (and there's incredible misinformation being bandied about by some quarters on this)
Canada maintains top spot as the most tax competitive country for business globally: KPMG Study
12 July 2016

Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal lead the rankings of international cities for tax competitiveness

Today, KPMG in Canada released its biennial Competitive Alternatives 2016: Focus on Tax report, revealing that Canada once again tops the list as the most tax competitive country for business globally. Canada’s top international ranking is attributed to low corporate tax rates combined with moderate statutory labour costs, as well as low goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax. The United Kingdom ranked second with the Netherlands taking third place in terms of tax competitiveness.

The supplementary Focus on Tax 2016 report assesses the tax competitiveness of 111 cities in 10 countries featured in the Competitive Alternatives study KPMG released earlier this year. The supplementary report also focuses on tax comparisons for 51 major international cities.

“This year’s Focus on Tax report reinforces Canada’s position as an attractive option for businesses looking to relocate and expand their operations,” said Jodi Kelleher, National Leader, International Tax, KPMG. “As our economy continues to rebound, this provides more positive news for the provinces and cities featured in the study.”

According to the study results, all 17 of the featured Canadian cities have lower total effective tax costs when compared to all US cities featured. During the study period (based on tax rates effective/announced as of January 1, 2016), St. John, NFLD emerged as the most tax competitive city in Canada followed by Fredericton, NB and Moncton, NB.

Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal held three of the top four spots among the 51 major international cities (with a population of two million or more) ranking first, second and fourth, respectively. Manchester, UK placed third.

Total tax costs are compared between countries and cities using a Total Tax Index (TTI) for each location. The TTI is a measure of the total taxes paid by companies in a particular location, expressed as a percentage of total taxes paid by similar firms in the US. As the benchmark country, the US has a TTI of 100.0. This study also defines a second measure of total taxes, which expresses tax costs as an effective rate, rather than an index of taxes actually paid. This measure is the Total Effective Tax Rate (TETR), which is calculated as: Total taxes paid by a corporation divided by Standardized net income before income tax.

Results by country


cq5dam.web.512.99999.jpg

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https://home.kpmg.com/ca/en/home/me...country-for-business-globally-kpmg-study.html

Are Ontario's personal taxes that out of whack? Not really, I've scanned the literature, and we're about middle of the pack for advanced nations. Again, the quibble isn't about how much we pay, but what we get for it, and what's published and accounted for.

We can do a hell of a lot better, but to look to the US in envy is madness.
 
It's what you get back in return for those taxes that we should be looking at. Our taxes go into education, health care, etc., for example.

Health insurance companies in the States can reject ER bill. See link where the health insurer won't pay for a $12,000 ER visit.
 
steveintoronto said:
In fact, most US states, since balanced budgets are the law, are deeply in debt, just not on the books. They 'outsource' the debt. I scoff every time a rightist zealot compares Ontario's debt to US States. Even though Ontario is creative in keeping a lot of debt off the books, it pales compared to US states when the same accounting parameters are used.
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Any examples to illustrate your point? I'm not saying you're making things up, I'm just curious.
 
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