2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[PinkLucy]

I have to edit the above, as it wasn't a volunteer apparently, but someone Brown apparently picked up at a bar or party. No power dynamic there I can see. And what's a 16 year old doing in a bar drinking, if that's the case? If Brown was giving the drinks to a minor in a bar or party, I'd say that's the criminal offence.

No power dynamic? An older man with a young woman not a power dynamic? Someone who could report her for being under aged in a bar? Someone who may be well known in town and could offer her a summer job or something similar? That is a total power dynamic.

 

[narduch]

The legal system is terribly slow in Canada.

Are we supposed to wait 5 years to judge Brown?

I'm sorry but in the court of public opinion we don't need the same burden of proof as the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is up to you to decide.

Like I said before, this appears to be a pattern of behavior. The media is sort of hinting that this has been an open secret for awhile.

If you think this is unfair to Brown, perhaps he shouldn't have hung around bars in Barrie preying on 18-year old girls. He's lying in the bed he made.

 

[Admiral Beez]

No power dynamic? An older man with a young woman not a power dynamic?

Well, if that's the measure, then many a man is in trouble. Heck, the ten year spread between my parents when they were dating (my unwed mother was 18 when my older brother was born, so underage sex I assume) would qualify.

Anyway, back to politics and Wynne's chances. I can't imagine whom the PCs will put forward, but if they get it right, they may very well trounce the Liberals this summer. The PCs have shucked off the pallor of Brown and now have a clean sheet. Unless they pick another evangelical from the far right.... then they're screwed. I'm voting NDP I think.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Also, keep in mind that he didn't have to resign - and in fact, he chose not to. His campaign team and his party made the decision for him in the end. If those who are closest to him (his team) didn't feel confident about his chances, there is no reason to expect everyone else to give him a pass.

AoD

 

[innsertnamehere]

Well, if that's the measure, then many a man is in trouble. Heck, the ten year spread between my parents when they were dating (my unwed mother was 18 when my older brother was born, so underage sex I assume) would qualify.

Anyway, back to politics and Wynne's chances. I can't imagine whom the PCs will put forward, but if they get it right, they may very well trounce the Liberals this summer. The PCs have shucked off the pallor of Brown and now have a clean sheet. Unless they pick another evangelical from the far right.... then they're screwed. I'm voting NDP I think.

Age of consent is 16 in Ontario, just a reminder. What Brown allegedly did wasn't necessarily illegal in age of consent terms.
And yes, to suggest there wasn't a power dynamic is ridiculous. Brown was her boss in one of the cases! That is the literal definition of a power dynamic.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Age of consent is federal, not provincial. See also:

Sexual exploitation
A 16 or 17 year old cannot consent to sexual activity if:

• their sexual partner is in position of trust or authority towards them, for example their teacher or coach
• the young person is dependent on their sexual partner, for example for care or support
• the relationship between the young person and their sexual partner is exploitative

The following factors may be taken into account when determining whether a relationship is exploitative of the young person:

• the young person's age
• the age difference between the young person and their partner
• how the relationship developed (for example, quickly, secretly, or over the internet)
• whether the partner may have controlled or influenced the young person

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/clp/faq.html

AoD

 

[ShonTron]

I think they misspelled Wynne on Brown’s leadership campaign slogan.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Thanks @AlvinofDiaspar . I gotta admit, never looked into it that much. Makes sense.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think they misspelled Wynne on Brown’s leadership campaign slogan.

View attachment 133278

Ironically, they can just rearrange FTW and come up with WTF.

AoD

 

[44 North]

For the wince.

 

[narduch]

Age of consent is 16 in Ontario, just a reminder. What Brown allegedly did wasn't necessarily illegal in age of consent terms.
And yes, to suggest there wasn't a power dynamic is ridiculous. Brown was her boss in one of the cases! That is the literal definition of a power dynamic.

Age of consent is 18 when the person is an authority figure (teacher, coach, etc.)

 

[OneCity]

He likely knew he was stepping down when he came held the conference as his face told the story. His Lawyers likely told him to deny the charges first rather than step down immediately.

I feel terrible for the accusers as I just don't know how easy it will be to prove in a court of law. I guess that's the biggest challenge victims face as we can't simply find people guilty based on accusations. Without recorded proof I'm not sure how most allegations can be proven beyond reasonable doubt unless there is some concrete evidence. Atleast the old creeper was shamed as it does seem clear he may have a history of lurking younger women.

A 3 women race would be nice here as it could put the focus back on Politics.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Not the resignation that Jerry Agar (Newstalk 1010) was looking for.

 

[Irishmonk]

I have to edit the above, as it wasn't a volunteer apparently, but someone Brown apparently picked up at a bar or party. No power dynamic there I can see. And what's a 16 year old doing in a bar drinking, if that's the case? If Brown was giving the drinks to a minor in a bar or party, I'd say that's the criminal offence.That's the power of MeToo and Time'sUp movements to destroy men's lives and careers without any test of evidence or allegation. Find enough people to collaborate or mirror your allegation, and he's done for. In the 1960s, you need only claim someone was a communist, find enough folks to repeat the accusation, and they were done - are we really returning to that dynamic?

We have to remember that power corrupts and often invites its ill use. If one can through simple allegation destroy another, there will be those who will use this absolute power. I think every man should be thinking, woe the day they come for me, since we'll have no defense.

Equating this to McCarthyism is pretty glib since personal political affiliation and sexual assault are two very different things. Only one of them has a victim. Girls and young women have been preyed on by older powerful men for centuries. Only now do women feel empowered and secure enough to publicly come forward with their own accounts of this. It should have happened decades ago. Some men should be worried, and most of them probably know who they are.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The election is in June... unless the Liberals drop the writ earlier. What’s the possibility that the liberals call an election early before the PCs can reorganize the party?