narduch
Senior Member
I think they were caught off guard though. And their response is to just throw additional money at the problem.
They will do anything to get re-elected.
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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
I think they were caught off guard though. And their response is to just throw additional money at the problem.
They will do anything to get re-elected.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The arguments against the hike reminded me of when they started making moves to ban smoking in public places in NS. Restaurant and bar owners were crying that half of their customers would vanish. Oddly enough, despite the ban, people are still going out to eat and drink.
Besides, you'd probably lose more customers remaining as a smoking establishment when the smoking rate is in decline for the past 3 decades.
AoD
BurlOak
Senior Member
Here in Ontario, a law was passed that establishments had to create a ventilated smoking room, otherwise no smoling allowed. Many places spent 100s of thousands of dollars doing this upgrade. Shortly thereafter, smoking was banned completely. Again a case not giving business adequate time for the changes.The arguments against the hike reminded me of when they started making moves to ban smoking in public places in NS. Restaurant and bar owners were crying that half of their customers would vanish. Oddly enough, despite the ban, people are still going out to eat and drink.
In this case, 3 years earlier, the Liberals passed a motion that minimum wage would be tied to inflation. Less than a year ago, they broke that big time and sent business scrambling.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Nope, the provincial ban (Smoke Free Ontario) came in 2006 - the previous bylaws around ventilated smoking areas are municipality-based - enabled by Tobacco Control Act of 1994. That's more than a decade. You are mixing up Toronto's decision to implement the smoking room by-law and the provincial ban.
AoD
narduch
Senior Member
That's weird because I remember it exactly the way BurlOak described it.
I remember all these smoking rooms popping up in all the coffee shops. Then within a few years they were all useless.
I remember all these smoking rooms popping up in all the coffee shops. Then within a few years they were all useless.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Yup, because the city (along with several other GTA municipalities) decided to implement bylaws for separate smoking rooms in 97 onward - but then the ban from Queen's Park from the top in 2006 for all of Ontario. The actual enabling provincial legislation for municipal bylaws around smoking bans dated to 1994.
AoD
narduch
Senior Member
They must have waited awhile to implement these by-laws. Because I recall these smoking rooms only lasting a few years.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
They did. In fact the pre-amalgamation City of Toronto banned smoking completely in 96 - but ran into enforcement issue (which was exploited). The ban was watered down post-amalgamation to allow for smoking rooms - see:
http://www.ocat.org/onlegislation/context.html
AoD
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
In other news, that cabinet shuffle was a bit sad. Sad in that three ministers were released for the sole reason that they won't be candidates in the election. Never mind the political cynicism of the late minimum wage increase, this is worse.
Much worse. The government as personified by the executive branch should be above pre-election campaign politics. I'm not naïve enough (or at all, I'm one jaded bastard but that's for personal reasons) to think that this is always the case at all levels of government, but for me, this cabinet shuffle is just crass.
They switch out the retiring ministers for new ones who will be campaigning presumably as candidates and then tell us it's all to "keep cabinet fresh with new blood and ideas".
Piss off, straight up.
I never liked Liberals and they just never cease coming up with reasons for me to keep it that way.
At least the wage hike had massive societal benefits even though it was a cynical ploy for votes....this though is just dirty and strictly self-serving. Shameful even.
Much worse. The government as personified by the executive branch should be above pre-election campaign politics. I'm not naïve enough (or at all, I'm one jaded bastard but that's for personal reasons) to think that this is always the case at all levels of government, but for me, this cabinet shuffle is just crass.
They switch out the retiring ministers for new ones who will be campaigning presumably as candidates and then tell us it's all to "keep cabinet fresh with new blood and ideas".
Piss off, straight up.
I never liked Liberals and they just never cease coming up with reasons for me to keep it that way.
At least the wage hike had massive societal benefits even though it was a cynical ploy for votes....this though is just dirty and strictly self-serving. Shameful even.
Northern Light
Superstar
Whatever one's political predisposition, I have an issue w/saddling the Liberals as somehow unique in this particular matter.
It has been pro-forma my entire life that for any government, once a minister makes clear he or she will not be running again, they step aside from cabinet.
The reasoning is certainly political, that cabinet jobs build profile, make an MPP seem more important, and may sway additional voters to that candidate on the perception, (justified or not) that said riding will benefit by having a cabinet minister.
Its also a chance to reward a desirable candidate who previously was not in cabinet for lack of an opening.
But as noted, this has happened in Conservative administrations, and even NDP ones.
While some appointments may not be qualified, others will be at least as qualified as those they replace.
They will indeed provide 'fresh voices' at the table; even if that is NOT the reason for their appointment.
While I don't find anything particularly laudable in this practice, I can't say I see it as terrible either. The previous ministers would all be gone by early June regardless of the electoral outcome.
So why wait, if there's someone worth promoting?
I'm under no delusion that this some grand achievement; but I see no reason to be distressed by it either. Far worse things happen in government than cabinet shuffles.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
To be clear, I did not mean to imply that this is a specifically Liberal technique (not to worry, I've never been fond of the PCs and NDP either). I merely said that they do nothing for me by doing this.
There is no point in shuffling out retiring ministers this late before an election unless they have been involved in some sort of impropriety.
What is actually gained, this late before an election, in terms of government (which should be apolitical) operation by removing retiring ministers?
Also, I'd like to say that I'm hardly distressed by this manoeuvre and know very well that much worse things happen.
It's not very endearing, that's all.
There is no point in shuffling out retiring ministers this late before an election unless they have been involved in some sort of impropriety.
What is actually gained, this late before an election, in terms of government (which should be apolitical) operation by removing retiring ministers?
Also, I'd like to say that I'm hardly distressed by this manoeuvre and know very well that much worse things happen.
It's not very endearing, that's all.
torontologist
Active Member
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...-major-factor-in-wynnes-ultralow-ratings.html
I think the evidence speaks for itself. Wynne's approval ratings and voting intentions are lower among men than they are women. I'd like to know the exact numbers, but this is pretty damning.
I've always wondered why people were so swift to assign mistakes made under McGuinty's leadership to Wynne. I've also wondered why the same people are typically incapable of naming any of the current government's policies that they disagree with.
We still have a long way to go towards eliminating sexism, even in Ontario.
I think the evidence speaks for itself. Wynne's approval ratings and voting intentions are lower among men than they are women. I'd like to know the exact numbers, but this is pretty damning.
I've always wondered why people were so swift to assign mistakes made under McGuinty's leadership to Wynne. I've also wondered why the same people are typically incapable of naming any of the current government's policies that they disagree with.
We still have a long way to go towards eliminating sexism, even in Ontario.
narduch
Senior Member
I disagree with the sale of Hydro One.
That is going to bite us hard in the ass in the future. She never campaigned on that.
That is going to bite us hard in the ass in the future. She never campaigned on that.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Males tend towards conservatism far more than women. The liberals would likely be polling lower with males even if they had a male leader.
torontologist
Active Member
Yep. Which is why I want to see the numbers. It could fall within the typical gender gap between left/right.
My feeling is that the gap is still wider than typical. Just look at McGuinty. He was portrayed as "Premier Dad" and received a fraction of the vitriol that Wynne does, despite his (IMO) less effective and less visionary leadership. Not to mention his government's major screwups.