2018 Municipal Election: Toronto Council Races

[steveintoronto]

Not exactly hard to find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_and_territories_of_Canada#Territories

I've quoted that and more previously here: #829

I think his point was that, yes, secession, i.e. the creation of a new province, is possible

"Secession" and "creation of a new province" are not one and the same. *Joining Confederation as a Province* and *seceding from a Province* are two entirely different functions.

There is no legal mechanism within Ontario (or any other province that I know of) that provides for secession of territory.

If you know of a mechanism, then please supply it, as I've asked others previously to no reply. What would be a curious legal construct is what if a secession from a province did happen? What then? Would it be recognized as a *Territory* by Parliament? Not such a bad outcome, all things considered. But it's a surreal construction, there is no mechanism in Ontario for secession, or expulsion for that matter.

 

[Avenue]

You could reduce council further and I'd likely not notice.

You could eliminate Orthodontists, Brain Surgeons, Astronauts and Physicists too.

Never had to use one...And don't stop there. You could eliminate provincial legislatures too. For instance, that there Ford fella. Useless as teats on a bore (sic). Think of all the money we could save...never had any use for the man. Even less now...

Exactly. Gynecologists.... I've never used one. That means it's waste of the hardworking taxpayers' money.

Universal conservative logic.

 

[King of Kensington]

I fundamentally disagree with this. Individual councillors are a product of the wards they were elected in. Their job in council is to fight for the needs of of their constituents. The reason they have so much trouble coming to consensus is because the needs of the different wards in the city are so different. All a strong mayor system would do is make it easier to impose a solution to one set of needs on the whole city. If the mayor sides with downtown the suburbs lose, and if the mayor sides with the suburbs then downtown loses. The solution is to delegate more power down to a community/borough council level...decentralize further so that each community can service its own needs rather than concentrate that power further at the top. A smaller council and mayor as oversight at the top is fine as long as we have strong local, elected councils.

BUT...THAT...MIGHT...MEAN...MORE...POLITICIANS.

 

[King of Kensington]

It wouldn't shock me if Ford decided to eliminate school boards.

 

[pman]

It wouldn't shock me if Ford decided to eliminate school boards.

Do school boards serve any useful function?

 

[King of Kensington]

No, they only exist to waste taxpayers' money.

 

[steveintoronto]

It wouldn't shock me if Ford decided to eliminate school boards.

Yeahhhh...Done by a premier with half a brain, that makes incredible sense. The purpose of school boards long ago disappeared. Many jurisdictions no longer have them, they are administrated directly from the state or province, nationally in many nations.

However, the Spectre of Church Lady looms large in the Reactionary Con Party. I don't think Ford has the smarts to handle this. Mind you, he hasn't the smarts to know if his wife is Jewish or not.

 

[adma]

Well, a best-case scenario might be: his council-reduction proposal is *successfully* pushed back, and he can go ahead and rant about "there they go again, wasting taxpayer dollars" and that can be his camping theme for 2022, h0w ungrateful others foiled his plans to be the Greatest Premier Ever "For The People, More Than Ever"...

 

[Videodrome]

Do school boards serve any useful function?

I am no fan of the TDSB.

 

[Richard White]

Apparently there is the potential for a legal case on the grounds the COTA has wording that mandates consultation before any major changes.

It was pointed out via a parody twitter account but David Miller virtually confirmed the wording and thinks the city has a case.

 

[JGHali]

I've quoted that and more previously here: #829
"Secession" and "creation of a new province" are not one and the same. *Joining Confederation as a Province* and *seceding from a Province* are two entirely different functions.

There is no legal mechanism within Ontario (or any other province that I know of) that provides for secession of territory.

If you know of a mechanism, then please supply it, as I've asked others previously to no reply. What would be a curious legal construct is what if a secession from a province did happen? What then? Would it be recognized as a *Territory* by Parliament? Not such a bad outcome, all things considered. But it's a surreal construction, there is no mechanism in Ontario for secession, or expulsion for that matter.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at in terms of a “mechanism”. The only way of doing it would be through constitutional amendment, ie an Act of Parliament also assented to by resolutions of 7/10 provincial legislatures (presumably also by including the affected province).

Otherwise, Ontario didn’t exist prior to Confederation, and given that the BNA Act provided for the division of the Province of Canada into Ontario and Quebec, the “legal mechanism” would clearly fall under “constitutional amendment”. Previously that was only the purview of the UK Parliament and since 1982 it can occur according to the amending formula.

All that aside, it’s not going to happen.

 

[DSC]

This is full text from COTA noted above.
Relationship with the Province
(2) The Province of Ontario endorses the principle that it is in the best interests of the Province and the City to work together in a relationship based on mutual respect, consultation and co-operation. 2006, c. 11, Sched. A, s. 1 (2).

Consultation
(3) For the purposes of maintaining such a relationship, it is in the best interests of the Province and the City to engage in ongoing consultations with each other about matters of mutual interest and to do so in accordance with an agreement between the Province and the City. 2006, c. 11, Sched. A, s. 1 (3).

 

[Admiral Beez]

You could eliminate Orthodontists, Brain Surgeons, Astronauts and Physicists too.Never had to use one...And don't stop there.

Exactly. Gynecologists.... I've never used one. That means it's waste of the hardworking taxpayers' money.

I don’t agree that reducing Toronto city council by half is equal to the elimination of doctors and scientists.

Perhaps the city works well because of its tens of theousands of employees, and the city management, rather than the councillors? I don’t know, but I’m not ready to panic before seeing if the city can run on half its representatives.

 

[steveintoronto]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at in terms of a “mechanism”

A specific clause, paragraph or chapter detailing the means to secede.

And my term was "legal mechanism". If you're unfamiliar with it, I suggest you Google.

 

[OneCity]

s[

I don’t agree that reducing Toronto city council by half is equal to the elimination of doctors and scientists.

Perhaps the city works well because of its tens of theousands of employees, and the city management, rather than the councillors? I don’t know, but I’m not ready to panic before seeing if the city can run on half its representatives.

I don't see a big issue here either way other than it was implemented in a very reckless manner. What I do hope is it creates more competition for councillors seats going forward and sends a message of urgency to councillors to show results. Having the same councillors sit in their seats with little competition every elections has enables a culture of "kick-ball". No guarantee but it should create at least a bit more competition.