2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[TheTigerMaster]

I would say that it was the type of idiot that supports LRT in the middle of Eglinton.

Wouldn't the Richview Corridor only make it easier to build said light rail transit.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

On the proposed map, there are very few stations in Etobicoke along Eglinton West, which could save some money if SmartTrack is elevated or tunnelled. However, I find the huge amount of stations in Scarborough vs the lack of stations in Etobicoke very strange, so I wonder if more will be added along Eglinton.

It's called politics. The lack of stops outside of Scarborough is very intentional.

 

[ehlow]

I would say that it was the type of idiot that supports LRT in the middle of Eglinton.

This type of personal attack, calling someone else who posts on this forum an "idiot" simply because they supported a given type of transit mode which you don't agree with, isn't very productive in my opinion.

 

[Markster]

What about the stations?

Presumably there is more than 4.2m at/near the major roads that would get a station.

Vancouver has been building their stations on adjacent parking lots at major intersections.
I don't have detailed plans of what Build Toronto has sold off, and what remains, so I can't comment. But it's certain that there's more space at intersections, as they always reserve extra.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

It's called politics. The lack of stops outside of Scarborough is very intentional.

Completely. That's the reason there are also more stops in Scarborough than in the downtown area.

Does anyone here think SmartTrack will ever actually be built as a standalone service? I foresee quite honestly, that given the sad but likely event that Tory becomes mayor, it'll just get merged into GO RER - or so I hope. Because seeing billions wasted on a service which almost 100% duplicates RER might make me lose faith in humanity or at least this city.

 

[BurlOak]

So the other question to ask is what idiot planned an LRT in the middle of the street when there was a fully grade-separable empty corridor directly adjacent to said street.

Well, that would be TTC and Metrolinx. And using nfitz logic (from another thread), the 50% of Torontoninans who voted for David Miller and the Provincial Liberals.

 

[salsa]

So the other question to ask is what idiot planned an LRT in the middle of the street when there was a fully grade-separable empty corridor directly adjacent to said street.

The LRT has extremely low ridership projections in that corridor, which even a BRT could easily handle. Try taking the Eglinton bus west of Jane and see for yourself. Grade separation is an expense that is not justified and would prevent redevelopment along Eglinton. And somehow that's idiocy?

The sale of the Richview Corridor really is inexcusable. It's not like we're even getting mid-rise or mixed-use development along this arterial either as a trade-off - just ugly townhouses.

Totally agree about the townhouses . BTW isn't Doug Ford partly responsible for selling the land through Build Toronto?

 

[BurlOak]

The LRT has extremely low ridership projections in that corridor, which even a BRT could easily handle. Try taking the Eglinton bus west of Jane and see for yourself. Grade separation is an expense that is not justified and would prevent redevelopment along Eglinton. And somehow that's idiocy?

That area was planned for subway.

 

[salsa]

Okay? The ECLRT is rapid transit according to TTC and Metrolinx.

You said there was rapid transit planned for the Richview lands. There isn't.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

The LRT has extremely low ridership projections in that corridor, which even a BRT could easily handle. Try taking the Eglinton bus west of Jane and see for yourself. Grade separation is an expense that is not justified and would prevent redevelopment along Eglinton. And somehow that's idiocy?

Totally agree about the townhouses . BTW isn't Doug Ford partly responsible for selling the land through Build Toronto?

It's idiocy only because the corridor for grade separation was readily available and could've been done relatively cheaply. Ridership towards Pearson via Eglinton West, I believe at least, will only grow as time goes on, and future-proofing that segment via Richview would've been a good investment to make. But vis-a-vis the redevelopment...would've been nice to see something other than the town houses then

I'm not certain about DoFo's involvement. Wouldn't surprise me though.

 

[ehlow]

Completely. That's the reason there are also more stops in Scarborough than in the downtown area.

Does anyone here think SmartTrack will ever actually be built as a standalone service? I foresee quite honestly, that given the sad but likely event that Tory becomes mayor, it'll just get merged into GO RER - or so I hope. Because seeing billions wasted on a service which almost 100% duplicates RER might make me lose faith in humanity or at least this city.

Of course, it's just a modification of two GO RER lines to move them into the TTC rapid transit network. It's not a duplication of GO RER. It's not like there'll be separate tracks for GO RER and two for SmartTrack, with two sets of trains & stations and everything.

 

[salsa]

It's idiocy only because the corridor for grade separation was readily available and could've been done relatively cheaply. Ridership towards Pearson via Eglinton West, I believe at least, will only grow as time goes on, and future-proofing that segment via Richview would've been a good investment to make. But vis-a-vis the redevelopment...would've been nice to see something other than the town houses then

I'm not certain about DoFo's involvement. Wouldn't surprise me though.

The corridor was available, but it doesn't mean it should be used unless it's necessary. Otherwise, why not also put the Finch LRT in the hydro corridor instead just because we can? Future-proofing sounds good in theory but there's no guarantee that the investment will pay off. People argued that building the Sheppard subway was "future-proofing, long term investment, etc" but we ended up with a while elephant transit line that will not pay off for many decades, if ever. But if one day the Eglinton West ridership ever warrants grade separation (even after UPX, Finch LRT extension to Pearson), then perhaps an elevated structure can be built in the middle of the road instead, replacing the LRT ROW:

View attachment 34346

 

[nfitz]

So the other question to ask is what idiot planned an LRT in the middle of the street when there was a fully grade-separable empty corridor directly adjacent to said street.

What's the point of building an LRT down a road with no development.

It's not like we're even getting mid-rise or mixed-use development along this arterial either as a trade-off - just ugly townhouses.

Indeed. Shame on Etobicoke Council for not doing making sure this was done properly. The local councillor should have been watching this. Not sure who it is out there ... hmm, Gloria Lindsay Luby it would seem.

I agree that whoever made the decision to sell off this corridor needs to be fired.

Check out the council item that authorized it in May 2011 early in the Ford era when he still had a mandate and control - http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2011.GM3.21

Result: Carried Majority Required - GM3.21 - Adopt the item as amended
Yes: 35 Paul Ainslie, Maria Augimeri, Ana Bailão, Michelle Berardinetti, Shelley Carroll, Raymond Cho, Vincent Crisanti, Glenn De Baeremaeker, Mike Del Grande, Frank Di Giorgio, Sarah Doucette, Paula Fletcher, Rob Ford, Mark Grimes, Doug Holyday, Norman Kelly, Mike Layton, Chin Lee, Gloria Lindsay Luby, Josh Matlow, Pam McConnell, Mary-Margaret McMahon, Joe Mihevc, Peter Milczyn, Ron Moeser, Frances Nunziata (Chair), Cesar Palacio, James Pasternak, Gord Perks, Jaye Robinson, David Shiner, Karen Stintz, Michael Thompson, Adam Vaughan, Kristyn Wong-Tam
No: 0
Absent: 10 Josh Colle, Gary Crawford, Janet Davis, John Filion, Doug Ford, Mary Fragedakis, Giorgio Mammoliti, Denzil Minnan-Wong, John Parker, Anthony Perruzza​

Doug Ford might have been absent, but he supported it at Committee a couple of weeks earlier.

Some more came up for transfer in November 2011. Again, unanimous http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2011.GM9.10 with both Rob Ford and Doug Ford voting in favour.

Who the hell sells off a corridor while rapid transit is planned on for it? Idiots.

Rapid transit wasn't planned for it. The item very clearly explains that the sale was as a result of the EA and that rapid transit wasn't planned for it. Even Rob and Doug Ford agreed to it.

 

[nfitz]

I would say that it was the type of idiot that supports LRT in the middle of Eglinton.

Is it? Council approved this back in November 2010. See http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2009.CC42.7

Let's see who supported it:

Paul Ainslie, Brian Ashton, Maria Augimeri, Sandra Bussin (Chair), Shelley Carroll, Raymond Cho, Janet Davis, Glenn De Baeremaeker, Mike Del Grande, Frank Di Giorgio, John Filion, Paula Fletcher, Adam Giambrone, Suzan Hall, A.A. Heaps, Cliff Jenkins, Norman Kelly, Gloria Lindsay Luby, Pam McConnell, Joe Mihevc, Peter Milczyn, David Miller, Denzil Minnan-Wong, Ron Moeser, Howard Moscoe, Frances Nunziata, Cesar Palacio, Joe Pantalone, John Parker, Gord Perks, Anthony Perruzza, Kyle Rae, Bill Saundercook, Karen Stintz, Adam Vaughan, Michael Walker​

The only opposition was Rob Ford and Case Ootes.

So the type of idiot that supports LRT in the middle is the type of idiot that doesn't agree with Rob Ford.

 

[gweed123]

Politically, I think a trench down the middle of Eglinton, decked over at select locations is probably more feasible than an elevated line. Same grade separation, same type of "out of sight" mentality as tunnelling, but without any of the ventilation requirements. I'm thinking a narrower version of the Scott Street Transitway trench in Ottawa, but in the middle of the road. Another example is the Maloney Blvd (Hwy 148) stretch of the new Rapibus in Gatineau, where it goes underneath Gréber Blvd.

The stations can be located 1 level below the intersection, with the intersection itself acting as a roof on the central section of the platform, with the outer sections being exposed. If there is a particularly strategic piece of land in the middle, it can be decked over. Trees and bushes can be planted in front of the fences fencing off the corridor, so that it merely looks like a treed boulevard instead of a boulevard with a giant trench down the middle of it.

The only section of SmartTrack that is really problematic is the connection between the Eglinton West corridor and the Georgetown rail corridor. That's going to be a b***h to build without expropriation and/or tunnelling.