2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[aquateam]

This is exactly what I have been saying for years. Using existing infrastructure and as I recently stated one of the benefits of using the UPX line for Smart Tracks {or however the hell we are spelling it these days} is that the improvements can be phased in.

Any new subway is basically wait 10 years for all the studies, court cases, environmental reviews, and consultations and then wait another 10 years for it to get built and in the mean time just listen to the politicians say "it's coming". Subways and any new infrastructure is an all or nothing deal. Even if Toronto had the money {and it doesn't} the long suffering transit users will have to wait till it's all done decades from now in order to see the benefits of all the construction and their tax dollars.

Turning UPX into an effective transit line with limited stops {ie Denver's new East/Airport Line} can be phased in and improved but Torontonians will actually be able to use it in the mean time. It's also much easier to get funding for smaller more individual and ongoing upgrades as it represents more ribbon cutting for politicians and ones that will take place BEFORE the next election.

Since we've agreed that it's SmartTrack and not Smart Tracks, can we now also agree that braces {} are not a substitute for parentheses ()?

On a more serious note, just because it takes long doesn't mean it's not worth doing. If the DRL had been started as part of the network 2015 plan we'd be able to ride it today. These kind of long-term investments are necessary. Hopefully with the metrolinx revenue tools we'll be able to see a sustained build-out of transit infrastructure, in terms of State-Of-Good-Repair, fleet expansion, ROW development, and other incremental improvements that qualitatively improve transit in the short and medium term while long-term projects are underway.

 

[SJD_Toronto]

Hopefully Dumbtrack can be phase out, depending on how it goes.

SmartTrack is coming and it's needed.

 

[rbt]

SmartTrack is coming and it's needed.

What is SmartTrack to you and is it distinct from the provinces announced GO improvements?

I have great interest in the provinces GO plans and some type of fare integration (not necessarily at TTC rates). I also believe this would have happened if Tory was not elected as mayor (voted for him, pleased he won, but his transit plan wasn't a selling point).

Also, what do you mean by "needed". That is, what problem will Tory be solving with it?

 

[ssiguy2]

SmartTrack is needed on top of GO RER.

First, it allows Torontonians to get on a train before the 905 which means they might actually get a seat. More importantly it will be at TTC fares so all people will be able to enjoy it. Most people who take regular transit are middle/low income earners so that extra fare may be more than they can afford. Also by having a city system it allows for faster GO RER as they could basically be express trains all the way from Malton to Bloor/Union.

 

[Platform 27]

More importantly it will be at TTC fares so all people will be able to enjoy it.

Oh yes. Because every evening in faraway Toronto, a bevy of stewardesses on the GO train serve plutocrats complementary champagne and caviar as they lounge blissfully on the way back to their Malton chateaux, safe in the knowledge the proletarian rabble were aggressively kept off their train.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Oh yes. Because every evening in faraway Toronto, a bevy of stewardesses on the GO train serve plutocrats complementary champagne and caviar as they lounge blissfully on the way back to their Malton chateaux, safe in the knowledge the proletarian rabble were aggressively kept off their train.

I guess when UPX rolls out and it costs 30 bucks (they want to make money back from this) you'll have a sarcastic comment for that too.

 

[innsertnamehere]

harhar.

GO suffers an image problem in Toronto more than anything, most people south of Steeles perceive it as something for the 905ers and that shouldn't be touched, no matter the fares. They complain about their hour bus ride into Downtown every day, but are too cheap to shell out the extra $30 a month or whatever it costs to take GO instead. on a monthly basis GO really isn't that much more expensive than the TTC.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

harhar.

GO suffers an image problem in Toronto more than anything, most people south of Steeles perceive it as something for the 905ers and that shouldn't be touched, no matter the fares. They complain about their hour bus ride into Downtown every day, but are too cheap to shell out the extra $30 a month or whatever it costs to take GO instead. on a monthly basis GO really isn't that much more expensive than the TTC.

I don't disagree. That's why RER/SmartTrack needs to happen now.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

harhar.

GO suffers an image problem in Toronto more than anything, most people south of Steeles perceive it as something for the 905ers and that shouldn't be touched, no matter the fares. They complain about their hour bus ride into Downtown every day, but are too cheap to shell out the extra $30 a month or whatever it costs to take GO instead. on a monthly basis GO really isn't that much more expensive than the TTC.

Guilty as charged, innesert

I travel from Yonge and Eglinton to Scarborough frequently and on a few occasions it would have been faster for me to take GO over there, but I didn't feel like shelling out the extra few bucks. My money was definitely worth more than my time in those cases.

My problems with go are:
1. It's too infrequent. The great thing about the TTC is that I can walk to the bus stop and get to wherever I need to go, whereas with GO you really do need to plan your trips ahead of time. This means that GO will rarely get me to where I want to go, when I want to go faster than the TTC.
2. It's too expensive. I'm not going to spend $6.00 per trip to shave 25 minutes off my commute.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I mean for monthly passes. Taking 40 trips on GO from, for example, Eglinton GO station to Union station, costs $172. 50 trips costs $172, 60 trips $172, etc. With Presto the single fare for the first 35 trips is $4.82, 36-40 is $0.66, and 40+ trips is $0.00.

Many look at the sticker price of a single retail ticket (not PRESTO), and get scared away. Reality is that taking GO within the city of Toronto typically costs only $31 a month extra on top of a TTC Metropass.


Now of course that is presuming that you only ever use the TTC for commuting, and would otherwise never use the TTC.

GO doesn't serve Yonge - Eglinton either, so not sure how that would work. Going from York Mills to Scarborough Centre would cost you $4.68 for a standard fare and $166.95 monthly to do however. Thats only a 15 minute bus ride during off peak hours, too, operating on a 20 minute frequency. If I was faced with a beyond painful trip on the bus (70 minutes according to google maps) between Yonge Eglinton and Scarborough centre or a 40 minute trip using GO and the Yonge line, I may take it. Maybe not every day, but if I was running late or if it was an occasional thing, I would absolutely do that.


Mind you my standards for fare prices may be a bit inflated after a super commute I experienced last year where I regularly spent around $300 a month on transit costs. $267 GO transit and probably $30 TTC when I was too lazy to walk to Ryerson from Union.

 

[WislaHD]

I think the fact that the folks at Liberty Village are source-funding a bus tells you all that you need to know about the perception of GO service in the 416.

SmartTrack needs to be put on the TTC map alongside with fare integration.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I think the fact that the folks at Liberty Village are source-funding a bus tells you all that you need to know about the perception of GO service in the 416.

SmartTrack needs to be put on the TTC map alongside with fare integration.

it speaks that people are completely and utterly ignorant that the system even really exists. There is no real reason that the bus should exist, GO transit provides better and more reliable service for less money.

 

[gweed123]

harhar.

GO suffers an image problem in Toronto more than anything, most people south of Steeles perceive it as something for the 905ers and that shouldn't be touched, no matter the fares. They complain about their hour bus ride into Downtown every day, but are too cheap to shell out the extra $30 a month or whatever it costs to take GO instead. on a monthly basis GO really isn't that much more expensive than the TTC.

I think the biggest deterrent isn't the fare itself (as you've pointed out), but rather the lack of a co-fare arrangement. Many GO stations in Toronto have a noticeable lack of parking, with the exception of a few. This means that people need to either live within walking distance, be lucky enough to get there to get one of the limited spots, or take a TTC bus to get there. For the latter, the lack of co-fare certainly presents an issue. If someone is taking the Sheppard East bus from say McCowan, should they transfer at Agincourt and pay the complete GO fare on top of it, or keep going to Don Mills and take the subway for no extra charge? For most people, the answer to that is pretty clear.

The 905 has the fare part figured out pretty well, it's just that the service is so infrequent and so indirect that it makes using it an unattractive option. Combine the TTC's bus routes along major corridors with the 905 co-fare structure, and you have yourself a pretty good scenario.

 

[interchange42]

We don't need more parking at GO Stations in the 416. Certainly not in surface lots in any case, and not in free spaces. (I'm not suggesting that you are suggesting more parking.)

Along with the coming fare integration (which I believe will ultimately result in a GTHA-wide zone fare system), what would be better at the 416 stations would be enhanced connections to TTC routes, which will be all the more necessary with the more frequent train service.

Also needed: far more bicycle parking at GO (and TTC) stations. Hundreds of bike spots at rapid transit stations would send a major message about where we want to go with transportation in this city.

42

 

[innsertnamehere]

yes, the lack of fare integration is ultimately what kills GO transit in Toronto, though it is still possible using active transportation to cover that last mile. I personally know someone who lives in the Rexdale area who bikes roughly 2km to the GO station (etobicoke north) to save roughly 20 minutes on their commute each way, for little more than what they were paying for the TTC.

In the end however some form of fare integration is key for GO transit to work well in the 416, a $0.75 fare setup like with suburban transit agencies would work miracles for that.


Metrolinx supplies bike parking at stations as demand warrants. the city needs to provide bicycle infrastructure to get the bikers to the station, GO transit is already doing what it needs to in terms of bike storage, including putting bike storage in some rather odd places such as Lincolnville. A few stations have actually received larger amounts of Bike parking in recent months due to demand, such as Unionville and Markham.

The TTC absolutely needs to do more in terms of bike storage at subway stations however.