2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

What I find bizarre is this notion the Chow supporters keep bringing up: if you want a truly progressive option you'll vote for Chow. It's as though they think the public is confusing Tory for a leftist.

Do they really think that everyone wants a progressive alternative to Ford? Most just want a sane centrist or moderate conservative.

Their mistake is assuming that public desire to dump Ford is indication of a hard left turn in public sentiment. It isn't. It's a desire to dump Ford.

It's multiple overlapping fallacies. They think people want a progressive because they want to dump Ford, as you say.
And then they think that Tory will do the same thing as Ford so people don't realize that they're just electing Ford in a better suit and don't they see that's stupid!
As I said above, I think clearly Tory is generally a fiscal conservative (but FAR FAR FAR more socially progressive than the Fords) but to imply he holds the same beliefs as the Ford, well, it's just as ignorant as the Ford Nation beliefs. It simply does not jibe with Tory's actual resume, no matter how much they want it to. Can you imagine Doug Ford being involved AT ALL with CivicAction, much less as its head? I bet he doesn't even know what they do. Can you imagine the Fords chairing a fundraising campaign for United Way or running a football league? Both notions are absurd. Even worse, it's the Chow-ites playing Doug's game, saying Tory is just a slick-talking elitist and they're too far up their own butts to see how they'e fallen for it. So, when I hear that logic I shut down.
(And, for what it's worth, it's possible that if she was leading I'd be seeing Tory people talking about how she'll tax the city to death etc., but that would be BS too. A little more time supporting your candidate and a little less slamming the other guy for no reason might do you some good, folks.)

They don't GET IT, and that's why they're shadow boxing, fighting against a John Tory that doesn't actually exist, and losing.

And yet this city doesn't vote for the right wing, either provincially or federally. Tory has been rejected by the voters of this city twice before for candidates further left than he is.

Doug would need at least 33% and a miracle to get elected. There's little indication from the polling he'll come in this high. There's no reason for voting for Tory on the risk of electing Ford - unless you like Ford's right-wing policies, with a more socially acceptable face.

I'm not even convinced Ford will come in second in the election, given how the turnout for the advanced poll is going.

The polls have been so far off on so many elections lately, I wouldn't take anything for granted. That said, I think Chow and Tory are both probably actually higher than the numbers, and Ford lower. Maybe that's just me trying to find it hard to accept a reality in which nearly 30% of people in this city actually would even remotely consider putting Doug in a position of power. At least Rob had the council experience! When I think about it, as horrible as he was, if I really had to choose I suspect he'd be the better mayor of the two!

 

[Scarberian]

At least Rob had the council experience! When I think about it, as horrible as he was, if I really had to choose I suspect he'd be the better mayor of the two!

Rob 2010 in his early mayoral term, IIRC had a much more sizeable FNation numbers and not just the remaining nutter zealots like nowadays. And back then Rob had enough momentum to act like he was operating in a strong merryl system. All that started to fail when Doug started to act more and more like he deserved to be co-mayor. Library vs Tim Hortons, Margaret Atwood feud, megamalls and ferris wheel "plans", all IIRC was either started or made worse by Doug. Doug may have\had more political desire\ambition than Rob, but Rob IMO simply had better political instincts. Doug can't buy that with a mountain of 20$, and he doesn't seem to have the temperament to try to learn. Thank Odin for small miracles I guess.

 

[adma]

Doug would need at least 33% and a miracle to get elected. There's little indication from the polling he'll come in this high.

Technically, it could be even less than 33% that might get DoFo elected, because of the sheer number of candidates out there--never mind that only 3 1/4 (the 1/4 being Goldkind) are actually "viable"...

 

[adma]

Oh, and re strategic voting + crazed Olivia supporters: what y'all have to consider that in these final stretches, it's becoming just another conventional left vs right race with DoFo thrown in as a wild card. And the left is trying to tar Tory with the Ford legacy much as they tried tarring Tory with the Lastman legacy in 2003. Nothing new at all (except that Miller, not Tory, won in 2003)

 

[the lemur]

There's no hard 'G' sound either ... unlike "again" ... and the 't' is silent. Unless you live in Scarberia ...

I think you're confusing a few things. The 't' is silent only in French (and the 'g' is like the second one in garage, and the 'in' is nasal, etc.).

However, there is only one difference between the pronunciation of Agincourt in UK English and in our regional Toronto dialect:

Toronto: age-in-court
UK: adge-in-court

 

[kEiThZ]

Wouldn't that be great?

I think people forget that Mittens was reasonably successful as governor, eben implementing policies that are leftist in the US (like health care). His downfall was not embracing his own record at the national level... Largely owing to the crazy that is the rest of the GOP.

 

[kEiThZ]

And yet this city doesn't vote for the right wing, either provincially or federally. Tory has been rejected by the voters of this city twice before for candidates further left than he is.

Perfect proof of the delusions that leftists have. Torontonians don't vote right? Really? Explain the current mayor. The candidate endorsed by several sitting Liberals is right wing? Nobody buys that but rabid Chowites. And screaming that out will cost your camp credibility.

In any event, we both know that Tory's electoral failures are more nuanced. Miller proved popular. Not because he was on the left. Remember the broom? Screaming about corruption is usually a rightist policy canard. Miller used it successfully. And John Tory's failure at the provincial level had a lot to do with the Liberals capitalising on his school funding policy. Without that, it's a real possibility that Tory would be premier. I think what's frustrating for leftists is that Tory has not put his foot-in-the-mouth as he usually does.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think what's frustrating for leftists is that Tory has not put his foot-in-the-mouth as he usually does.

Actually he did - but considering Tory's competition is one giant walking foot-in-the-mouth, it's hard for his to compete for media attention. This isn't an election between the centre left vs. centre right - it's one between sanity and insanity.

PS: The leftist labelling is getting old.

AoD

 

[nohostages]

The leftist labelling is getting old.

AoD

Not for me, I'm on the left and I find it the most accurate description of my views. When did leftist become a dirty word?

 

[Crazy]

And yet this city doesn't vote for the right wing, either provincially or federally. Tory has been rejected by the voters of this city twice before for candidates further left than he is.

Doug would need at least 33% and a miracle to get elected. There's little indication from the polling he'll come in this high. There's no reason for voting for Tory on the risk of electing Ford - unless you like Ford's right-wing policies, with a more socially acceptable face.

I'm not even convinced Ford will come in second in the election, given how the turnout for the advanced poll is going.

I wish we had up votes here, but since we don't I'll quote you and add: YES!

 

[kEiThZ]

The advance voting is curious. Don't think it's indicative of a final outcome though.

Ford Nation probably out in force to protect their guy. You know they sense the sentiment of change. Anti-Ford also out in force to oust him. And v then there's the Chow-Tory fight driving their individual supporters to the polls.

 

[kEiThZ]

Actually he did - but considering Tory's competition is one giant walking foot-in-the-mouth, it's hard for his to compete for media attention. This isn't an election between the centre left vs. centre right - it's one between sanity and insanity.

PS: The leftist labelling is getting old.

AoD

Are you referring to the racist accusation against Doug Ford? I'm not sure what moment in this race could constitute "foot-in-the-mouth" like the religious schools policy. Nothing is really sticking like that.

And what's wrong with leftist to describe people on the left? I also use rightist to describe people on the right and their policies. Aren't these more neutral terms than self-prescribed branding of "conservative" and "progressive"?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Are you referring to the racist accusation against Doug Ford? I'm not sure what moment in this race could constitute "foot-in-the-mouth" like the religious schools policy. Nothing is really sticking like that.

Well, there are the women and golf comment, or the QuAIA one - relatively minor and overall inconsequential, and certainly pales in comparison to the FoFams.

And what's wrong with leftist to describe people on the left? I also use rightist to describe people on the right and their policies. Aren't these more neutral terms than self-prescribed branding of "conservative" and "progressive"?

Except that "leftist" as a commonly used term tend to be associated with violent groups - the equivalent on the right isn't rightist (with you rarely see used, period) in this context, but "far right" or facist. I am sure you know that just as well as I do.

AoD

 

[nohostages]

Except that "leftist" as a commonly used term tend to be associated with violent groups - the equivalent on the right isn't rightist (with you rarely see used, period) in this context, but "far right" or facist. I am sure you know that just as well as I do.

AoD

I think that is an old notion . Like French revolution old. Zapatista old. In Canada I believe we are thought of more as bleeding hearts. To the right, bleeding hearts with an unreasonable expectation that we can afford to take care of the downtrodden. I think we are considered audaciously naive.
ETA and I'm cool with that.

 

[salsa]