11 Wellesley St W (Lanterra Developments) - Real Estate -

[Lenser]

Developers realize that the soaring value of real estate in the core drives the trend toward including micro-units in towers. If they go too far with the concept (either by charging too much or designing even smaller units, which is the other side of the side coin), people will balk from buying into such teensy units.

Meantime, as long as they do sell, developers will figure they've been right all along. Personally, I expect the trend will continue; many people - especially those who have to sacrifice the most to even get into the market in the first place - will become accustomed to smaller living spaces, in exchange for superb access to transit, amenities, work/play... the writing is on the wall.

 

[Condo George]

I dont understand why developers see 316 sf as reasonable living, besides more $$$ for them. Take that unit and divide it to add more sq footage to the units beside it.

Have you ever seen Hong Kong.............

Lets look at this scenario for a minute, I do have buyers for this unit and more buyers for this one as opposed to the 362 sq ft. Why? At the Britt next door at 955 Bay this unit will rent for $1400 a month. If the unit sells for $225000, it will carry for $1100 a month all in and they own it. Also the buyer doesn't think its worth the extra $40,000 and carrying costs for the 362 sq ft. It is a hotel room but its a home and they get to enjoy all of the amenties that the 900 sq ft unit has at a fraction of the cost. This is the motivator.

 

[salsa]

I dont understand why developers see 316 sf as reasonable living, besides more $$$ for them.

However the developer paid a lot for the land, and they have to build a park as well. And as others have said, small living spaces is a trend in big cities.

 

[pmilo]

I understand all that was said and valid points, but it was more a rhetorical question. Is there any need that Toronto follow trend with smaller units really?

 

[LNahid2000]

I understand all that was said and valid points, but it was more a rhetorical question. Is there any need that Toronto follow trend with smaller units really?

If there's a market for these, why not?

 

[Condo George]

I understand all that was said and valid points, but it was more a rhetorical question. Is there any need that Toronto follow trend with smaller units really?

In the 1980s, bachelors were 600 sq ft, some lenders still have that on their books. So yes the trend is smaller.

 

[TheKingEast]

Have you ever seen Hong Kong.............

Lets look at this scenario for a minute, I do have buyers for this unit and more buyers for this one as opposed to the 362 sq ft. Why? At the Britt next door at 955 Bay this unit will rent for $1400 a month. If the unit sells for $225000, it will carry for $1100 a month all in and they own it. Also the buyer doesn't think its worth the extra $40,000 and carrying costs for the 362 sq ft. It is a hotel room but its a home and they get to enjoy all of the amenties that the 900 sq ft unit has at a fraction of the cost. This is the motivator.

Comparing Hong Kong to Toronto is like comparing Kia to Bentley. God bless sales people.

You hear the same stuff at every sales center.

 

[Condo George]

All info will be released today at a private event at Queens Park.

www.georgekozaris.com/11wellesleycondos

 

[Condo George]

 

[TheKingEast]

Prices are better than I expected. Finishes seem to be good on paper too. Are we up to 60 cents/foot for pre construction maintenance fees now? Add another 10-15 cents by the time this building closes. Tight.

 

[Condo George]

 

[interested]

Prices are better than I expected. Finishes seem to be good on paper too. Are we up to 60 cents/foot for pre construction maintenance fees now? Add another 10-15 cents by the time this building closes. Tight.

About $660/sq.ft.+ for floor 13 and will go up from there.
Given the subway, I think it will sell. I think it is priced well or a bit high but given prices of YC and others it is in the range for being on the subway line.
I just don't see how investors will make money at these prices however if they plan to rent them frankly.

E.G. Stanley at 489 sq.ft. say gets $1650/month. Condo fees are about $300/month, taxes about $250/month, insurance $10/month and realtor 1 month +HSt or $155/month. Assuming no vacancy down time at all (add $1650 or $138/month if you assume 1 month/year vacancy) we are talking about $715 to $853/month expenses for a net of $935 or$797 if assume vacant one month/year.
Down payment 20% is $64200 + the LTT + legals and other expenses so let's say $75000.
Residual mortgage $256K @ 3% is $768 of interest alone on the principal. ( I am not counting principal repayment which is virtually zero in the first few years So if no vacancy you make $150/month or $1800 or 2.5 % on your downtown payment and if there is one month vacancy virtually nothing.
To actually sell as a flip, add in realtor fees and legals etc. (let's say a total of 8%, the price has to go up from $343K paid(assumes about $11K of LTT/legals and other expenses) and adding 8% brings 343K to $370K.
$370K means one has to get based on 489 sq.ft. or $757/sq.ft. when ready to break even.

I guess the question is: will investors still buy given this rough economic calculation at this site assuming there is profit to be made. This calculation is based on the lowest floor (13) and I am assuming will go up $1000/floor or $2/sq.ft./floor.

Perhaps some of the investors/flippers would care to comment on their thoughts of 11 Wellesly, both as to how it will sell and whether they as investors or "flippers" would act.

Personally, I would not be a buyer....to do so would be to hope that in 5 years prices will be over $757/sq.ft. by my calculations.

KingEast....any comments?

 

[pmilo]

Here are some floor plans. They are pretty good, well designed layouts.

 

[Condo George]

I am getting huge demand for this site, priced right, park, floorplans, design so many positive factors, I too will buy here.

 

[TheKingEast]

About $660/sq.ft.+ for floor 13 and will go up from there.
Given the subway, I think it will sell. I think it is priced well or a bit high but given prices of YC and others it is in the range for being on the subway line.
I just don't see how investors will make money at these prices however if they plan to rent them frankly.

E.G. Stanley at 489 sq.ft. say gets $1650/month. Condo fees are about $300/month, taxes about $250/month, insurance $10/month and realtor 1 month +HSt or $155/month. Assuming no vacancy down time at all (add $1650 or $138/month if you assume 1 month/year vacancy) we are talking about $715 to $853/month expenses for a net of $935 or$797 if assume vacant one month/year.
Down payment 20% is $64200 + the LTT + legals and other expenses so let's say $75000.
Residual mortgage $256K @ 3% is $768 of interest alone on the principal. ( I am not counting principal repayment which is virtually zero in the first few years So if no vacancy you make $150/month or $1800 or 2.5 % on your downtown payment and if there is one month vacancy virtually nothing.
To actually sell as a flip, add in realtor fees and legals etc. (let's say a total of 8%, the price has to go up from $343K paid(assumes about $11K of LTT/legals and other expenses) and adding 8% brings 343K to $370K.
$370K means one has to get based on 489 sq.ft. or $757/sq.ft. when ready to break even.

I guess the question is: will investors still buy given this rough economic calculation at this site assuming there is profit to be made. This calculation is based on the lowest floor (13) and I am assuming will go up $1000/floor or $2/sq.ft./floor.

Perhaps some of the investors/flippers would care to comment on their thoughts of 11 Wellesly, both as to how it will sell and whether they as investors or "flippers" would act.

Personally, I would not be a buyer....to do so would be to hope that in 5 years prices will be over $757/sq.ft. by my calculations.

KingEast....any comments?

I wouldn't buy either. I think investors will jump on it, though. It has so many things going for it. I can't even predict the market anymore *tosses pen in the air*