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$100,000 price cut gets things moving - could this be telling of things to come ?!?!?

Always get a good chuckle out of the random Cityplace hate on UT.

"Urbandreamer has stated (post # 1006) that in one building "... over 60 condos for sale in one City Place building..."."

"the poster didn't say cracks were in the building (although that may/may not be true) but that there's already a crack house/condo there"

Generally UT is a good source of information. But for some reason when it comes to cityplace, UT posters turn in to 14 year old girls... "yeah well my friend says cityplace is blah blah".

Do you guys really take this nonsense seriously?
 
KA1 said:
I

It is only a matter of time that quite a few of these individuals will be forced to go somewhere else.They would look for a bit more expensive apartments in the desirable buildings and neighbourhood. That, in turn, will enable owners of these units to move "up the ladder" and go for more expensive units.

That, my friends, is a good news for investors in luxury developments like Shangri-la and AURA. Good Times will be here soon. Recession for the owners of units in these developments will end sooner rather than later.

Bottoms up.
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Funny you're saying this because in my mind I have coined the phrase...The Mass Exodus! I believe also that we'll see this from many of these downtown locations near the highways. Though there are condos spread out everywhere, it definatley looks like they've tried to shift the coming generation of kids into the downtown and King west areas. Is this where they would have chosen to live? Probably not, but you go where there is availability.

I believe at some point we will see a Mass Exodus from these areas into much more livable neighbourheads with more infastructure, like the Yonge corridor, expecially for those that want to stay close to the core, such as between College and Bloor. Of course many will settle down and head out to the supburbs as well.

For now it's kool to be downtown, but eventually you wake up one morning and think...what the hell am i doing living down here as you stare out over the Gardiner.
 
The essence of this thread is reactionary and short-term thinking. The forces that will work on cityplace will be long-term in nature. For the most part the long-term future of multi-residential condo communities in this city is an experiment that will unfold over the coming decades. The experience we have with such communities such as St. James Town, the condos on the central waterfront, Massey square etc. seem to indicate that over long periods condos struggle to maintain their inflation adjusted value. My sense is that cityplace has a base-line intrinsic value based on it's location and will function mainly as an affordable mass housing option for young people. The real question is do current prices reflect the base-line value or are they too high?

Every condo unit that is built puts upward pressure on the prices in established low-rise neighbourhoods in the old city of Toronto. I suspect we will see a greater divergence between these two realities. In essence in the future young people will be able to afford to live in cityplace, but not afford to "move up" to ownership in established low-rise neighbourhoods downtown. So their options will be either own or rent a condo downtown, rent in an established nieghbourhood or don't live in the city.
 
myfive said:
I believe at some point we will see a Mass Exodus from these areas into much more livable neighbourheads with more infastructure, like the Yonge corridor, expecially for those that want to stay close to the core, such as between College and Bloor. Of course many will settle down and head out to the supburbs as well.

For now it's kool to be downtown, but eventually you wake up one morning and think...what the hell am i doing living down here as you stare out over the Gardiner.
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Nope. What you'll see is eventually those kids will get married and settle down and move back to the suburbs. Then new kids will come downtown to replace them.

Nearly every owner of every condo I saw when I moved downtown was in the same situation - just had a kid, moving back to the suburbs. Cityplace is no more or less suited to this than any of the other "more livable neighbourhoods" you have mentioned.
 
gei said:
Nope. What you'll see is eventually those kids will get married and settle down and move back to the suburbs. Then new kids will come downtown to replace them.
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Gei, I would agree with you, but with one caveat. I suggest that the new kids who come downtown will only be willing (able?) to pay what their predecessors paid. Whereas based upon recent sales statistics, most of the Cityplace condos have more recently sold at a significant increase over the original purchase price. It seems to me that this indicates an eventual price correction.
 
gei said:
Nope. What you'll see is eventually those kids will get married and settle down and move back to the suburbs. Then new kids will come downtown to replace them.

Nearly every owner of every condo I saw when I moved downtown was in the same situation - just had a kid, moving back to the suburbs. Cityplace is no more or less suited to this than any of the other "more livable neighbourhoods" you have mentioned.
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If you read my post, i noted many would move back to the suburbs.

However, not all will stay by the highway that long. It won't be just Cityplace then the suburbs. Many will move to interim locations that i have suggested. Also, not all will go back to the suburbs. Not everyone gets married and has kids. Also, the mass of kids exists right now, the boomers kids, and there won't be as many to replace them when they go.
 
TrickyRicky said:
My sense is that cityplace has a base-line intrinsic value based on it's location and will function mainly as an affordable mass housing option for young people.

Every condo unit that is built puts upward pressure on the prices in established low-rise neighbourhoods in the old city of Toronto. I suspect we will see a greater divergence between these two realities. In essence in the future young people will be able to afford to live in cityplace, but not afford to "move up" to ownership in established low-rise neighbourhoods downtown. So their options will be either own or rent a condo downtown, rent in an established nieghbourhood or don't live in the city.
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That's exactly I addressed as 'downward spiral' in an earlier post which, over a period of time, will lead to another St. James Town.
 
Every single person I know living in Cityplace loves it (myself included). It's unlikely people would leave the place they love to much to live in some other "established low-rise neighbourhood" which would be more expensive, further from the core, further from the lakefront, have vastly inferior amenities, etc etc.

The only people I know of who leave do so very reluctantly, and usually because they have absolutely no other choice... ie taking a job overseas, or just had a child. In fact every person I know myself who has left cityplace was for one of those two reasons.
 
getting back on topic, what is the average selling price for CP in the past 3 months?

with this current sale, a sub-PH with nice quality finishes (not luxury but it does have hardwood, granite, etc) and 2 parking spaces selling for ~$410 PSF must put pressure on other units ?!?

regarding the comment that it's a large unit, hence harder to sell ... i see some units on MLS for those CP buildings for sale asking ~$450 - 500 PSF on much lower floors so why not get 20% more space, better finishes and higher level for the same price ?!?
 
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Condo Critic: Cityplace proving its critics wrong
March 13, 2010
Christopher Hume
TORONTO STAR


Cityplace has its fair share of detractors, but the fact is that it appears ready to become one of the most successful planned neighbourhoods in Toronto.

Development of the old railway lands started on the east side of Spadina and now continues on the west. Clearly, the lessons learned on the former were applied on the latter. Though there's much skepticism about this sort of urban mega-development, Cityplace seems to be getting it right.

As much as anything, this success is based on a solid understanding on the importance of the public realm. Much remains to be finished, but the attention to public amenities such as sidewalks, parks and even architecture has already made a difference.

Certainly, Cityplace will not be another St. James Town in terms of what's going on at street level. At Cityplace, roads are connected and sidewalks lined with planters. There are even a few small squares and public art pieces. The quality of the planning is matched by the quality of the architecture, which is remarkably sophisticated.

The most obvious problem is that of Spadina, which bisects the site. Where it meets Bremner Blvd./Fort York Dr., Spadina is fully nine lanes wide, seven for cars, two for streetcars. The reason, of course, is that Spadina has been turned into an on/off ramp for the Gardiner Expressway and Lake Shore Blvd.

Why the city would allow such a use in an area set aside for residential development remains a mystery. It looks like another example of trying to have it both ways; clearly, the idea was to allow the suburbanization of Toronto to continue while accommodating urban intensification.

At some point, the city will have to decide in which direction it wants to go.
 
gei said:
Always get a good chuckle out of the random Cityplace hate on UT.

"Urbandreamer has stated (post # 1006) that in one building "... over 60 condos for sale in one City Place building..."."

"the poster didn't say cracks were in the building (although that may/may not be true) but that there's already a crack house/condo there"

Generally UT is a good source of information. But for some reason when it comes to cityplace, UT posters turn in to 14 year old girls... "yeah well my friend says cityplace is blah blah".

Do you guys really take this nonsense seriously?
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Yep.
So do most people doing their due dilligence while holding their cheque books in their hand.
 
Flux Capacitor said:
The most obvious problem is that of Spadina, which bisects the site. Where it meets Bremner Blvd./Fort York Dr., Spadina is fully nine lanes wide, seven for cars, two for streetcars. The reason, of course, is that Spadina has been turned into an on/off ramp for the Gardiner Expressway and Lake Shore Blvd.

Why the city would allow such a use in an area set aside for residential development remains a mystery. It looks like another example of trying to have it both ways; clearly, the idea was to allow the suburbanization of Toronto to continue while accommodating urban intensification.

At some point, the city will have to decide in which direction it wants to go.
Click to expand...


Yep...and nobody's even mentioning the bigger issue of burying the Gardiner. Absloutlely incredibile that they've allowed 10's of thousands of new condo units situated along a toxic highway. Really think that people are being taken advantage of so that they can fill the lands and increase the tax base.
 
myfive said:
Yep...and nobody's even mentioning the bigger issue of burying the Gardiner. Absloutlely incredibile that they've allowed 10's of thousands of new condo units situated along a toxic highway. Really think that people are being taken advantage of so that they can fill the lands and increase the tax base.
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this is common all over the world. Construction happens near major arteries of transportation, be it public or roadways.
Infill is far more expensive to build and difficult to find and therefore I believe you see old warehouses(as our economy goes away from a manufacturing base) being reused and the location of these is what dictates in alot of cases the location of condos.
One must be forward thinking as a previous poster has stated: With the condos, comes the retail (though slow in some areas) and the restaurants etc. and neighbourhoods evolve.
Those which get the right mix ultimately command greater prices and those that don't will relatively turn out to be less desirable, poorer places to live and worse investments.
 
myfive said:
Yep...and nobody's even mentioning the bigger issue of burying the Gardiner. Absloutlely incredibile that they've allowed 10's of thousands of new condo units situated along a toxic highway. Really think that people are being taken advantage of so that they can fill the lands and increase the tax base.
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Which people? The international buyers who never set foot in these vertical mobile home parks? The entry-level buyers who would rather buy a low end apartment near downtown than a mid-range one in North York or Etobicoke? Or the post-grad renters (50% of the residents here) who will treat their unit like a college dorm and be out of there before they have to change the common area carpets?

You get what you pay for, typically. This development is basically a poor man's Battery Park.
 
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