Ïce Condos (Lanterra Developments, Cadillac Fairview) - Real Estate -

What's the deal with Ice? There is a ton of units for sale and rent on MLS, much more than any other condo in Toronto as far as I can tell. Anybody have the inside scoop? This project seems like a massive failure for anybody that invested from the outside looking in.
 
What's the deal with Ice? There is a ton of units for sale and rent on MLS, much more than any other condo in Toronto as far as I can tell. Anybody have the inside scoop? This project seems like a massive failure for anybody that invested from the outside looking in.

The project is huge so it would have a lot more units than most projects. I believe one of the towers recently closed so of course there would be a lot of units for sale while the other tower may still be in occupancy hence the rentals. Or maybe the long delayed construction is pushing owners to sell. I always liked Ice from the outside. The inside though, is pretty weak. Par for the course with this builder anyways. Ice had some of the highest PPSF when it was selling and I never understood. Tiny units with mid level finishes.
 
The project is huge so it would have a lot more units than most projects. I believe one of the towers recently closed so of course there would be a lot of units for sale while the other tower may still be in occupancy hence the rentals. Or maybe the long delayed construction is pushing owners to sell. I always liked Ice from the outside. The inside though, is pretty weak. Par for the course with this builder anyways. Ice had some of the highest PPSF when it was selling and I never understood. Tiny units with mid level finishes.


Hmmm....This is an interesting perspective, particular when read from the point of view of a Purchaser and Resident, as well as an investor who is lucky enough to own quite a few units in projects in downtown Toronto, all of which had been purchased as Pre-Construction purchases.

First, the building hasn't Closed. In fact, the project has not even Registered as of this moment; both towers are part of the same Condominium Corporation and will close together.

Secondly, with respect to the number of sales listed on the MLS, this is a reflection of those investors who had purchased units for the purpose of Assigning them to end-users in and around Final Closing, which is a common investment strategy. Lanterra Developments targeted this niche of investors by placing a templated, standardized set of Assignment Clauses in the Agreement of Purchase and Sales (APS) as an incentive, and which didn't require negotiation. This, in my view, was a very good move given the desirable location of this project, and the period of time it went to market. As the building is about to Register, those investors are now selling as part of their investment plan. I think this is wise on the part of investors, and is not a reflection of the quality of finishes, size of units, or other cosmetic imperfections perceived by some, nor some level of dissatisfaction with the project.

Thirdly, although it can be appreciated that people make one of the largest purchases of their lives by focusing upon their individualized needs (such as the sizes of the units and quality of finishes), these items are becoming less and less relevant as location and convenience are given precedence. From the perspective of a Developer, I see no reason why one would invest in the highest end, exotic finishes when they will be outdated by the end of the calendar year. Selling relatively recent, tasteful and functional finishes (which I imagine most suppliers are selling to Developers at a discount to make room for their most recent stock) makes complete sense to me, as the Developer reduces their overall costs of doing business, while still achieving their business goals. As a reminder, this project is sold out, which buttress' this opinion.

I hope this provides the "inside scoop" that some of the other forum users were inquiring about. I must say, as I'm lucky enough to own one of the top floor units, there are few words that can describe the sunrises and sunsets I see on a daily basis from the comfort of my bed, nor the sense of peace and tranquility that comes from having such a lake view while living in the sky. This experiences is not diluted by the lack of 'high end finishes' my unit is fixed with.

The only drawback that I see is when, for example, some guy name Jose Bautista hits a powerful home run to launch our Toronto Blue Jays closer to the World Series Final, that living at ICE can be a headache. It is times like these when a resident can barely walk around outside from all of the excitement and celebrating tourists. But, this won't be an issue once the Path Connection is built in the next couple of years.
 
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Sorry, I disagree. Finishes are very important and Lanterra tends to provide finishes at the lower end of the spectrum. They're still selling units with carpeting and laminate counters. They are notorious for this. As far as finishes and unit sizes not being important....you are speaking like a true investor. If your argument is that the builder is catering to investors then you don't get an argument from me. It shows exactly what the builder's focus is and it's not for end users which again would explain the cheap finishes. No problem with developers providing home depot finishes. The price should reflect that. As far as the "clauses" this is no different than many other developments that allow owners to assign their units.

Don't worry, your investment should be safe.
 
Sorry, I disagree. Finishes are very important and Lanterra tends to provide finishes at the lower end of the spectrum. They're still selling units with carpeting and laminate counters. They are notorious for this. As far as finishes and unit sizes not being important....you are speaking like a true investor. If your argument is that the builder is catering to investors then you don't get an argument from me. It shows exactly what the builder's focus is and it's not for end users which again would explain the cheap finishes. No problem with developers providing home depot finishes. The price should reflect that. As far as the "clauses" this is no different than many other developments that allow owners to assign their units.

Don't worry, your investment should be safe.

You're allowed to disagree, and yes, I concur that my investment is safe.

I did make one investment where an emphasis on finishes played a more significant role in my decision making, and to this day, I regret it - RiverCity.
 
Has anyone received their Final Statement of Adjustments as of yet? How do the developmental fees, etc...look.

My closing is in two weeks.

Thanks in advance.
 
I'm hoping the City institutes every one of the proposed rules on Airbnb-type short term rentals. I anticipate the greatest impact will be felt in this project more so than any other in downtown Toronto since today it operates not as a residential condominium, but more like a 2 star hotel. Folks dragging their crappy luggage in and out, day and night, wandering up and down York Street like visiting vagabonds dressed in suburbia's finest fashions, Google maps guiding their way to their next stay. But hey, they save on tipping hotel staff since there aren't any. No need to spend money on restaurants or room service when you can bake chicken strips bought on sale at Longo's even the balconey party rages on. No incredulous bell hops to avoid when staggering thru the lobby, kids in tow clutching their dirty pillows. No need for cabs or Uber either since since its free to haul their worldly possessions scooped up at home town local big box stores or flea markets, traipsing up to road at all hours to Union Station in the rain or snow. That way they save a few hard earned dollars to spend on beer and street meat and sports memorabilia. Plus they never have to worry about other hotel guests making noise complaints so they're free to party all night like it's New Years in Arnprior. There's no security. No management. No rules. It's a offshore landlord's dream investment come true.
 
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Anyone knows approx. how much condo fees will be increased to cover the maintenance costs of the PATH connection once it is completed?
 
I'm hoping the City institutes every one of the proposed rules on Airbnb-type short term rentals. I anticipate the greatest impact will be felt in this project more so than any other in downtown Toronto since today it operates not as a residential condominium, but more like a 2 star hotel. Folks dragging their crappy luggage in and out, day and night, wandering up and down York Street like visiting vagabonds dressed in suburbia's finest fashions, Google maps guiding their way to their next stay. But hey, they save on tipping hotel staff since there aren't any. No need to spend money on restaurants or room service when you can bake chicken strips bought on sale at Longo's even the balconey party rages on. No incredulous bell hops to avoid when staggering thru the lobby, kids in tow clutching their dirty pillows. No need for cabs or Uber either since since its free to haul their worldly possessions scooped up at home town local big box stores or flea markets, traipsing up to road at all hours to Union Station in the rain or snow. That way they save a few hard earned dollars to spend on beer and street meat and sports memorabilia. Plus they never have to worry about other hotel guests making noise complaints so they're free to party all night like it's New Years in Arnprior. There's no security. No management. No rules. It's a offshore landlord's dream investment come true.
It's Lanterra...
 

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