TTC Ridership Growth Strategy 3

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Where have the TTC’s riders gone? Transit ridership never recovered from the pandemic. We asked why — and what could bring them back

The paths of two types of TTC riders — choice and captive — diverged sharply during the pandemic, depriving the TTC of much-needed revenue and altering the region’s planet-warming emissions.

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/mPDK7

The paths of these two riders diverged sharply during the pandemic. Their ongoing misalignment has created consequences that reverberate across the city, from depriving the TTC of much-needed revenue to altering the region’s planet-warming emissions.

Toronto Star continues to be an incredible joke of a publication. It is the peak of narcissism to conclude that commuting patterns in the GTA will have any sizeable effect on global warming. Our total emissions in Canada are less than the yearly increase in emissions from China alone.

 

[nfitz]

It’s not about solving homelessness and addictions, but keeping them off the TTC. That’s the challenge we face, in a city where these issues exists, how do you keep the TTC the safe, clean, reliable and fast service it needs to grow. Fare enforcement on the streetcars would be a good start.

It's 100% about dealing with the homelessness problem. The resources to deal with it are spread too thin. And if we dealt with that issue, dealing with the remaining issues would be much easier, as the amount of available resources would be much higher.

 

[6ixGod]

Toronto Star continues to be an incredible joke of a publication. It is the peak of narcissism to conclude that commuting patterns in the GTA will have any sizeable effect on global warming. Our total emissions in Canada are less than the yearly increase in emissions from China alone.

Legacy media stuck in the early 2010s.

 

[nfitz]

Toronto Star continues to be an incredible joke of a publication. It is the peak of narcissism to conclude that commuting patterns in the GTA will have any sizeable effect on global warming. Our total emissions in Canada are less than the yearly increase in emissions from China alone.

Because our nation is about 3% of Chinese population. The key factor is the emissions per capita where Canada is more than double China.

At the same time, emissions growth in China may have already peaked. https://www.economist.com/china/2025/05/29/chinas-carbon-emissions-may-have-peaked

I'm surprised that one would consider a centrist paper like the Star a joke - though it's right-wing ownership is concerning.

 

[MisterF]

It’s not about solving homelessness and addictions, but keeping them off the TTC. That’s the challenge we face, in a city where these issues exists, how do you keep the TTC the safe, clean, reliable and fast service it needs to grow. Fare enforcement on the streetcars would be a good start.

If you fix one problem the other goes away.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If you fix one problem the other goes away.

Yes. That’s the very cop out our transit and municipal leaders need to excuse inaction on the issues of cleanliness and safely. Akin to saying that Toronto has mentally ill and addicted homelessness people, so of course so does the TTC. But it needn’t be that way, and I’d argue the TTC can reduce this through solid fare and bylaw enforcement. The alternative is to carry on as is, but that won’t help to increase ridership.

So, forget about safer or cleaner. What about faster and regular?

 

[Thaboss]

Singapore

Can't speak to those other cities but singapore does it by enforcing very tough laws that would never pass the smell test here, cultural cleanliness standards that intersect with those laws (wanna eat on the train? Too bad lol), and last but not least, by being filthy rich.

Scandavian countries and the netherlands do it by providing appropriate services for rehab...while the netherlands has much more frequent and draconian enforcement. Go check out their fair gates for their trains...tall and imposing. At big stations ppl will check your tickets while boarding, after boarding, during rush hour, and After rush hour.

everyone knows if you choose to not pay proper ticket for wherever you happen to be going, your risk of getting caught is high.

In amsterdam, the trams will have a driver and some dude sitting right in front of the onboard payment system and in some cases their will be a fair gate inside of the tram itself.

Bottom line is that while we ignore social rehab to the extent needed because money and choose to rely on a proof of payment system we will continue having this issue. Especially as a cold climate city. That said the issue in toronto is far from the worst and I wouldnt even categorize it as bad. But we are closer to "bad" than we are to a "good" system safety and cleanliness wise if that makes sense

 

[MisterF]

Yes. That’s the very cop out our transit and municipal leaders need to excuse inaction on the issues of cleanliness and safely. Akin to saying that Toronto has mentally ill and addicted homelessness people, so of course so does the TTC. But it needn’t be that way, and I’d argue the TTC can reduce this through solid fare and bylaw enforcement. The alternative is to carry on as is, but that won’t help to increase ridership.

So, forget about safer or cleaner. What about faster and regular?

I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's a copout. I'm simply pointing out that liberal democracies do have the tools to deal with this and that addressing the root of the problem is more effective than the symptoms.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's a copout. I'm simply pointing out that liberal democracies do have the tools to deal with this and that addressing the root of the problem is more effective than the symptoms.

Because it’s not within the TTC’s responsibility or ability to solve society’s ills. Instead the TTC needs to recognize and work within the society it finds itself. This is a city with an issue with homelessness, addiction and mental illness, same as every major city in North America. With those issues literally clawing at its gates, the TTC needs to have a plan to keep its system safe and clean as part of its ridership growth strategy. I’m asking the TTC to enforce its own bylaws and fare collection - that’s why it’s a cop out, because the TTC has the tools to best work within this messy society it operates in.

Running an honour system for fare payment on the streetcars must be abused at huge scale. POP needs to be reversed. I find it curious that just as Toronto’s and Canada’s culture was shifting away from a staid, almost Victorian sense of civic duty, when people paid their fare simply because it was expected, where we feared social shame, we chose that moment to adopt an honour system for streetcar fare payment. Of course it was going to be abused.

 

[MisterF]

Because it’s not within the TTC’s responsibility or ability to solve society’s ills. Instead the TTC needs to recognize and work within the society it finds itself. This is a city with an issue with homelessness, addiction and mental illness, same as every major city in North America. With those issues literally clawing at its gates, the TTC needs to have a plan to keep its system safe and clean as part of its ridership growth strategy. I’m asking the TTC to enforce its own bylaws and fare collection - that’s why it’s a cop out, because the TTC has the tools to best work within this messy society it operates in.

Running an honour system for fare payment on the streetcars must be abused at huge scale. POP needs to be reversed. I find it curious that just as Toronto’s and Canada’s culture was shifting away from a staid, almost Victorian sense of civic duty, when people paid their fare simply because it was expected, where we feared social shame, we chose that moment to adopt an honour system for streetcar fare payment. Of course it was going to be abused.

I was responding to your statement "On the issues of cleanliness and perceived safety; one of the problems with most western liberal democracies worldwide is we have no tools for dealing with vagrancy, junkies and public nuisance on public transit." This statement goes well beyond just the TTC. The tools you mention are society-wide. That's what I'm talking about.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Focusing entirely on the cure is very expensive and just results in a game of whack-a-mole on transit. Focusing on prevention actually fixes the problem.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

It’s not about solving homelessness and addictions, but keeping them off the TTC. That’s the challenge we face, in a city where these issues exists, how do you keep the TTC the safe, clean, reliable and fast service it needs to grow. Fare enforcement on the streetcars would be a good start.

If the unhoused or addicted are on the TTC, authorities (no matter who they are, police, special constables, or whoever) should be able to direct them to shelters, hospitals, CAMH, etc. where help can be given to them. If you can't pay the fare, then they should take them to where help is available.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I was responding to your statement "On the issues of cleanliness and perceived safety; one of the problems with most western liberal democracies worldwide is we have no tools for dealing with vagrancy, junkies and public nuisance on public transit."

On public transit is the key there. Mea culpa for taking us off topic, but let's bring it back.

If you can't pay the fare, then they should take them to where help is available.

If you can't pay the fare, you should not have been able to enter the TTC. Look, I get it, cities are messy things, so perhaps the TTC should instead focus on speed and reliability rather than cleanliness and safely.

 

[JasonParis]

It’s possible to be compassionate toward those struggling with mental illness, addiction, or homelessness, while also recognizing that the TTC is not the appropriate agency to address these challenges. In fact, allowing these issues to overwhelm the transit system creates a self-fulfilling cycle, making it appear as though we cannot address problems effectively and placing additional strain on other agencies.

 

[crs1026]

It’s possible to be compassionate toward those struggling with mental illness, addiction, or homelessness, while also recognizing that the TTC is not the appropriate agency to address these challenges. In fact, allowing these issues to overwhelm the transit system creates a self-fulfilling cycle, making it appear as though we cannot address problems effectively and placing additional strain on other agencies.

Exactly. Using the city's transit infrastructure as a substitute for proper infrastructure and services for the homeless and mentally ill is a cop-out and encourages the city to overlook, instead of addressing, those needs. The city needs to do the heavy lifting on those problems, not undermine proper transit as a bandaid solution.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

Exactly. Using the city's transit infrastructure as a substitute for proper infrastructure and services for the homeless and mentally ill is a cop-out and encourages the city to overlook, instead of addressing, those needs. The city needs to do the heavy lifting on those problems, not undermine proper transit as a bandaid solution.

The province and feds, being responsible for healthcare and housing should bear the brunt of the lifting. There are an estimated 200,000 homeless people in Ontario. Surely if we treated this like a natural disaster, Great Fire of Toronto level of engagement and expense we could house them all. But like they say on the Riverbank, that's another story.