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Eglinton East LRT | Metrolinx

Northern Light said:
We already have a thread dedicated to transit fantasies.

Most of the above has little to do with any EELRT proposal that is moribund, and going nowhere, and that's as it should be.

Take fantasies to the correct thread please.

Transit Fantasy Maps

Okay in light of new election promises concerning transit got me thinking of all the new expansion/extension projects that could be done. Here's my ideas: 1. Eglinton- elevated structure between Avenue Rd and Bayview Ave. Continues underground west to Black Creek Dr and east to Don Mills Rd...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
Click to expand...
Basically I was commenting on almost the exact same route, serving the exact same need.
I always thought Fantasy was for the pie-in-the-sky ideas.
After the debacle on Finch, this should be viewed as improvements to (or maybe even salvaging) the current plan.
For me, assuming that on-street LRT will provide fast transit is Fantasy.
I suppose in Toronto doing the right thing or learning from their mistakes belongs in the fantasy world.
 
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Westey said:
Basically I was commenting on almost the exact same route, serving the exact same need.
I always thought Fantasy was for the pie-in-the-sky ideas.
After the debacle on Finch, this should be viewed as improvements to (or maybe even salvaging) the current plan.
For me, assuming that on-street LRT will provide fast transit is Fantasy.
I suppose in Toronto doing the right thing or learning from their mistakes belongs in the fantasy world.
Click to expand...
I don't believe the EELRT route being a single separate service is the right thing anyways. It just does not make sense as a standalone route, and should really be the priority sections of a Scarborough rapid bus network instead of an un-extendable elevated line that serves only one major trip generator.
 
north-of-anything said:
I don't believe the EELRT route being a single separate service is the right thing anyways. It just does not make sense as a standalone route, and should really be the priority sections of a Scarborough rapid bus network instead of an un-extendable elevated line that serves only one major trip generator.
Click to expand...
The thing I see is that we are spending $4.5B to $5B on an LRT which will have the same success as Finch.

Cancelling or tweaking the buses is always an option. Of course Ontario Line to Finch is a larger priority and likely so is the Western Leg.

But I'd rather propose a $5B to $6B Canada Line style elevated line. Basically, spend a bit more to get a much better product rather than blowing billions on a line that will not improve the transit ride in any way. It looks like we are heading towards the same problem as the other 2 (so far) LRT's where people kept saying it would be fixed in Detail Design, but never does. We must stop the mistake ASAP instead of letting it linger.

I have started to like having several lines end at the same place - that way it is not viewed as a forced linear transfer, but as an opportunity to transfer to many lines. At McCowan, this improved EELRT would meet B-D subway and Sheppard Subway. At the other end, it meets B-D subway, GO, and Eglinton LRT.

The great thing about elevated is that it can always be extended, and easily. This is already 18 km long and serves several places long Kingston Road, UTSC, and a few stops in Malvern. At Kennedy, it could be extended West along Eglinton to correct the on-street mistake (albeit not for 50 years). At McCowan/Sheppard, it could be extended north to Markham - as I think B-D is long enough already and shouldn't do this chore.
 
north-of-anything said:
I don't believe the EELRT route being a single separate service is the right thing anyways. It just does not make sense as a standalone route, and should really be the priority sections of a Scarborough rapid bus network instead of an un-extendable elevated line that serves only one major trip generator.
Click to expand...

I agree with this 100%. IF it was possible to extend the current Crosstown as one service to the EELRT, then it would be a good idea. But, because of the location and choices of the Scarborough Subway extension, its literally almost impossible unless they demolished and rebuilt the Crosstown Kennedy portal.

In lieu of this, it should just be a BRT and the planned section along Sheppard should just be a longer extension of the Sheppard Subway.
 
Although this may sound good at first glance, the numbers tell a different story. Subway is $800M/km (or more).
The options seem to be;
  1. Base Case. Sheppard Subway to McCowan and in-median LRT from McCowan to Malvern to UTSC to Kennedy Station. Total cost $11.7B.
    1. Subway 8km @ $900M/km = $7.2B.
    2. LRT = $4.5B (latest value).
  2. Sheppard Subway to McCowan and grade separated mini-metro from McCowan to Malvern to UTSC to Kennedy Station. Total cost $13.2B.
    1. Subway 8km @ $900M/km = $7.2B.
    2. Mini-Metro = 18km @ $333M/km = $6.0B.
  3. Sheppard Subway to Malvern and BRT from UTSC to Kennedy Station. Total cost $10.1B.
    1. Subway 11km @ $900M/km = $9.9B.
    2. BRT = 10 km @ $20M/km = $0.2B.
So base case +15% gets you full grade separation.
Base Case -15% gets you a longer subway and buses.

I suspect if busses are provided as an option, then Scarborough will again drive the political narrative and extension of the Sheppard subway to UTSC, then Kennedy GO, will be put on the table.
Will we again be heading again to a case where we saved a few Billion only have it cost us $10B in the end.
 
robmausser said:
I agree with this 100%. IF it was possible to extend the current Crosstown as one service to the EELRT, then it would be a good idea. But, because of the location and choices of the Scarborough Subway extension, its literally almost impossible unless they demolished and rebuilt the Crosstown Kennedy portal.

In lieu of this, it should just be a BRT and the planned section along Sheppard should just be a longer extension of the Sheppard Subway.
Click to expand...
Is there any evidence that Line 5 cannot go east of Kennedy? I know the City made this claim in their study for EELRT. But has Metrolinx responded? I would find it strange they would hamstring their own project with another of their own projects.
 
Abdullah77 said:
Is there any evidence that Line 5 cannot go east of Kennedy? I know the City made this claim in their study for EELRT. But has Metrolinx responded? I would find it strange they would hamstring their own project with another of their own projects.
Click to expand...
because of SSE station construction prohibits it.
remember EELRT is a city project. MX has no involvement and dont care about it at all
As in theoretically possible, but would be super expensive
 
generalcanada said:
because of SSE station construction prohibits it.
remember EELRT is a city project. MX has no involvement and dont care about it at all
As in theoretically possible, but would be super expensive
Click to expand...
Unless there was an abandoned LRT station at Kennedy, above grade and in the correct orientation. Oh, wait...
 
Voltz said:
I suspect it is too low to clear the GO line.
Click to expand...

Correct:

1767116980497.png


Credit to UT's owns @drum118 from his Flckr here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/drum118/albums/72157697626997595/with/48344633796
 
Voltz said:
Kennedy is a good place to split the line, if there is to be one to the east, most riders go to and from the subway.
Click to expand...
Other split terminals for Line 5 would be Kennedy Station (Line 2), Don Valley Station (Line 3), Yonge (Line 1), Cedarvale Station (Line 1, and of course Mount Dennis Station (UPX & GO).
 
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