Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[Bordercollie]

source?

It has been mentioned on this board multiple times.

 

[PinkLucy]

The Northlander trainset is laying over at Aldershot Yard for the night. Once the Lakeshore West line re-opens it will be taken to TMC.

At Aldershot (not my video, spouse found it)

 

[crs1026]

That raises an interesting question - why couldn't ONR pick it up from the TMC themselves? Surely they have trackage rights over the CN Bala sub and Metrolinx Bala sub, no?

It’s a six of one half dozen of the other proposition. CN crew hauling it to North Bay is probably easier to arrange.
What I do wonder is when the photo ops will start. Clearly the enthusiast community is tracking this thing relentlessly and when it does move to North Bay, even under cover of darkness, there will immediately be images floating around that would be grabbed up by the media especially in the North to report on its arrival.. I can’t imagine that Ford/Fedeli would surrender the opportunity to take credit and talk it up.
If it were my PR problem I would have an initial presser at Union Station acknowledging its arrival, followed by a well publicised VIP arrival trip to North Bay - and then a tour of the line with stops along the way for public open houses. (Which might only make more impact after the stations get erected and parking lots paved)
If it is decided that the train will be hauled dead to North Bay rather than running under its own power, ONR would be smart to send a locomotive to Toronto for that run, rather than have images of it being hauled by a CN loco floating around.
And then, as noted, there will be public expectation that service begins immediately… another PR challenge.
All just me dreaming, but if Ontario is dreaming that they can keep this thing under wraps until some future date when all the PR ducks line up in a row… good luck to them. I suspect the first trainset may stay in Toronto for some time for that very reason. But I will bet that Fedeli gets his picture with his head sticking out the cab window in very short order… perhaps even before Crosstown opens.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

It’s a six of one half dozen of the other proposition. CN crew hauling it to North Bay is probably easier to arrange.
What I do wonder is when the photo ops will start. Clearly the enthusiast community is tracking this thing relentlessly and when it does move to North Bay, even under cover of darkness, there will immediately be images floating around that would be grabbed up by the media especially in the North to report on its arrival.. I can’t imagine that Ford/Fedeli would surrender the opportunity to take credit and talk it up.
If it were my PR problem I would have an initial presser at Union Station acknowledging its arrival, followed by a well publicised VIP arrival trip to North Bay - and then a tour of the line with stops along the way for public open houses. (Which might only make more impact after the stations get erected and parking lots paved)
If it is decided that the train will be hauled dead to North Bay rather than running under its own power, ONR would be smart to send a locomotive to Toronto for that run, rather than have images of it being hauled by a CN loco floating around.
And then, as noted, there will be public expectation that service begins immediately… another PR challenge.
All just me dreaming, but if Ontario is dreaming that they can keep this thing under wraps until some future date when all the PR ducks line up in a row… good luck to them. I suspect the first trainset may stay in Toronto for some time for that very reason. But I will bet that Fedeli gets his picture with his head sticking out the cab window in very short order… perhaps even before Crosstown opens.

- Paul

Doesn't new equipment have to undergo a number of tests before it can operate under its own power? I assume no crew other than a borrowed VIA crew would be able to operate it, and none of the VIA crews would be cleared for the Bala and Newmarket subs. Don't running crews have to be 'certified' (for want of a better term) for a given section of track?

I don't know how current the ONR running rights and crews would be in CN territory; they haven't had to do it since about 2012.

If they were going to do a big photo op splash, they would be better to do it in Toronto. GTA media seldom venture north. Do it in North Bay and all you will get is the local CTV affiliate and a few local scribes. We discovered that when the OPP headquarters moved to Orillia and held press conferences in the auditorium. It had to be a really big story before anybody but CTV Barrie would show up.

 

[smallspy]

Doesn't new equipment have to undergo a number of tests before it can operate under its own power?

More importantly, it needs to be set up first. This will be the job of a Siemens crew, and the contract may dictate where this will happen. (Yes, they could change the location in the event of "unforeseen circumstances", but I'm not sure that we're there yet.)

Only once it has been set up and the final post-delivery inspection happens can crews think of operating it.

But even before that, they may want to check clearances on the line. VIA certainly did.

I assume no crew other than a borrowed VIA crew would be able to operate it, and none of the VIA crews would be cleared for the Bala and Newmarket subs.

That's not quite 100% true. There are some Corridor crews that still have their Bala Sub knowledge, having come over from operating or been on the spareboard for The Canadian.

Don't running crews have to be 'certified' (for want of a better term) for a given section of track?

Yes. If they are not trained on a territory, then a pilot - an engineer who may not know the equipment but does know the territory - would be needed.

I don't know how current the ONR running rights and crews would be in CN territory; they haven't had to do it since about 2012.

This is actually a good point. When ONR sent down their test train, they needed CN pilots to operate on the Bala and Newmarket Subs.

You would assume that ONR would want their crews to have that knowledge - hell, I'll assume that, too - but in the short-term, they may just get away with using pilots until their crews are proficient enough with the territory.

Dan

 

[SaugeenJunction]

First trainset now at TMC

 

[micheal_can]

It’s a six of one half dozen of the other proposition. CN crew hauling it to North Bay is probably easier to arrange.
What I do wonder is when the photo ops will start. Clearly the enthusiast community is tracking this thing relentlessly and when it does move to North Bay, even under cover of darkness, there will immediately be images floating around that would be grabbed up by the media especially in the North to report on its arrival.. I can’t imagine that Ford/Fedeli would surrender the opportunity to take credit and talk it up.
If it were my PR problem I would have an initial presser at Union Station acknowledging its arrival, followed by a well publicised VIP arrival trip to North Bay - and then a tour of the line with stops along the way for public open houses. (Which might only make more impact after the stations get erected and parking lots paved)
If it is decided that the train will be hauled dead to North Bay rather than running under its own power, ONR would be smart to send a locomotive to Toronto for that run, rather than have images of it being hauled by a CN loco floating around.
And then, as noted, there will be public expectation that service begins immediately… another PR challenge.
All just me dreaming, but if Ontario is dreaming that they can keep this thing under wraps until some future date when all the PR ducks line up in a row… good luck to them. I suspect the first trainset may stay in Toronto for some time for that very reason. But I will bet that Fedeli gets his picture with his head sticking out the cab window in very short order… perhaps even before Crosstown opens.

- Paul

My thinking is once they are ready to test it, they will do a run to North Bay and Timmins and the photo ops will happen. They may do one early January with it at the Via TMC as well.

 

[McGillicuddy]

You better believe Doug Ford's gonna be photographed tooting the thing's horn.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[cplchanb]

View attachment 706026

lets just hope that doesnt mean they cut corners to scramble finish the ONR sets.

 

[drum118]

Northland train releases proposed schedule, connecting Toronto to Timmins​

 

[lenaitch]

Northland train releases proposed schedule, connecting Toronto to Timmins​

Same timing as in their Business Case. They are still being coy about a Cochrane connection other that it will be rail, as well as the frequency.

 

[nfitz]

Same timing as in their Business Case. They are still being coy about a Cochrane connection other that it will be rail, as well as the frequency.

I'd think the pragmatic solution is starting the Moosonee service from Timmins, deadheading the trains back and forth between Timmins and Cochrane at the start or end of each run.

I'd think this would benefit the Moosonee service as well, with Timmins having about 10 times the population of Cochrane, which doesn't even have scheduled airline connections.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'd think the pragmatic solution is starting the Moosonee service from Timmins, deadheading the trains back and forth between Timmins and Cochrane at the start or end of each run.

I'd think this would benefit the Moosonee service as well, with Timmins having about 10 times the population of Cochrane, which doesn't even have scheduled airline connections.

Except that it takes a very long time to load the Polar Bear Express in Cochrane, since it's a mixed train with freight. Extending the PBX to Porcupine would significantly increase the travel time from Timmins to Moosonee compared to the current situation with an express bus from Timmins to Cochrane timed to meet the train.


Full article:

The plan for the return of the Northlander passenger train continues to pick up steam, and Ontario Northland has released a schedule with tentative times for the Toronto-Timmins route.
A date for the start of passenger service hasn’t been released yet, but the Ontario Northland website has posted the initial stop times and route. Passenger service will operate four to seven times a week, based on demand.
From Toronto’s Union Station, passengers will be able to catch the Northlander heading northbound at 6:30 p.m., with the train arriving at its final destination of Timmins around 5 a.m. the following morning.

For people heading into Toronto from Northern Ontario, the train is tentatively scheduled to arrive at Union Station at 10:55 a.m.
Along its route, the Northlander will offer a direct connection to Muskoka. Passengers boarding at Union arrive in Gravenhurst at 8:45 p.m., in Bracebridge at 9 p.m. and in Huntsville at 9:35 p.m.

Ontario Northland, an agency of the Ontario government, will operate the Northlander line with new trainsets like shown in a rendering.

Ticket prices haven’t been released yet and are set to be determined closer to the launch date. Ontario Northland has said on its website it recognizes the need for affordability when setting fares.

Service on the line is aimed to start in 2026, according to Ontario Northland’s 2025-26 business plan.
The rail route connecting Northern Ontario and Toronto was discontinued in 2012 and replaced with buses. In a 2022 news release announcing the purchase of new train sets to reinstate the line, the Ontario government projected yearly ridership to be between 40,000 and 60,000 by 2041.

 

[nfitz]

Except that it takes a very long time to load the Polar Bear Express in Cochrane, since it's a mixed train with freight.

Load the freight in Cochrane, the passengers in Timmins. The train could leave Timmins and park in Cochrane station, where the already assembled train is joined to the leading engines and passenger cars.

But yes, pragmatically if that's not an option, then bus.