News   Dec 08, 2025
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Finch West Line 6 LRT

It's not copium, it's lived experience.

I haven't been to any of the named cities, but in a city like Prague or Bratislava, their trams running in Finch style rights of way are speedy and are competitive to the subway (in cities that have one) for short and medium distance journeys.
As someone who was just in Europe a few days ago and rode trams around, I can confirm this is the case and traveling Finch today offers quite the juxtaposition.

It’s not about the train vehicle, the same issues afflicts buses too, we just accepted that the bus transit experience should be slow and suck too for whatever reason, and now it looks absurd after we spent billions on an LRT line. It is about the operational design. European cities do not prioritize the car over transit vehicles.
 
It's not copium, it's lived experience.

I haven't been to any of the named cities, but in a city like Prague or Bratislava, their trams running in Finch style rights of way are speedy and are competitive to the subway (in cities that have one) for short and medium distance journeys.
I checked a few stop pairings in Prague (and I focused on the straight ones). Again it seems to hover around 17-19km/h. Better than Finch West, but its far from amazing. I haven't seen anything that reaches the promised 22km/h speeds on Finch West.
 
You're right, chief, discrediting an entire type of transport is way smarter than adjusting our operations to match those that countless cities across the globe engage in every single day... 🙄🙄🙄🙄

All it would take is a flick of a pen to transform the 6 from a slow white elephant into a speedy form of rapid transit. The fact that we can't do that doesn't mean that the smart thing was to cancel Transit City.
As I responded to you earlier today, just because something can be done in a hypothetical sense doesn't mean it ever will be done. Has anything been done about 510 and 512? No. We've had shitty speeds for years and years. And you expect something different this time? You think that all of a sudden that this time something might be better? That's like a woman dating a guy thinking "I can change him, with me, it will change". Just because it is possible in theory doesn't mean it will ever happen.

Not to mention, you could have similar outcomes with a bus on it's own right of way without the $3.5 Billion pricetag, and you could build a lot more bus rapid transit for the cost of this white elephant. But it looks like you don't want to acknowledge reality, and just be bitter when you see an argument you don't like by trying to discredit me like you did some posts ago or just be sarcastic while ignoring my previous points. It would make a lot more sense to actually make changes to 510 and 512 and speed them up to prove that the TTC will not just make new surface lines a white elephant before building new surface lines like this, rather than just building more of the same and hoping that something will change in the future, so that we know that money isn't being thrown into a hole like this time.
 
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I timed my trips.

Finch West to Humber College: 56 minutes
Humber College to Finch West: 54 minutes

Was pretty consistent. My friend who was a frequent taker of the Finch Bus said it was typically 45 minutes. The Finch Bus drivers used to zip down the road outside peak rush hour, which is not seeming like the behaviour of these trains.
Seconding this with my own stopwatch times of of 53:46 WB and 51:30 EB end-to-end.

FWIW, the WB trip was held for a few minutes while a new train came out of the yard, and the EB was held while there was a "technical issue ahead" so I would guess without these the running time of ~46 minutes from the published timetable is supposed to be the norm, but still disappointing.


On the other hand, as someone who used to live in Ottawa and was around for the O-Train opening, I was quite happy the stations today didn't smell like Rideau and Parliament stations did....
 
As predicted months ago, the problems were never going to magically disappear once Line 6 or Line 5 opened. You can build the nicest LRT in the world, but if you don’t give it proper Transit Signal Priority, you have kneecapped the entire line on day one. And that is exactly what people are complaining about now.

Here in York, VIVA does the same nonsense: the bus sits through a red, inches into the intersection, and then stops again at the BRT station. That is not “rapid” transit, that is just a bus in a fancy jacket. And look, I will be generous and play along with the whole “Line 6 should be an LRT” framing, but let us be honest, a city the size and density of Toronto has no business relying on surface-running LRTs to do the heavy lifting of public transport. This is a 6 to 8 million metropolitan area with gridlock baked into every arterial road. An LRT forced to interact with traffic signals, turning vehicles, pedestrian cycles, construction, emergency vehicles, and weather is simply the wrong tool for the job.

Toronto needs heavy-rail, grade-separated subway infrastructure. No intersections, no surface-level conflicts, no signal delays, no bottlenecks from traffic, and consistent headways that are not at the mercy of whatever chaos is happening above. The Ontario Line is exactly what we needed.

Put bluntly, you cannot serve a global city with infrastructure designed for mid-sized cities. LRT only works when it is fully separated or given absolute priority, and Toronto refuses to commit to either. So we end up with expensive, politically “safe” half-measures that give all the cost of rail with the performance of a local bus.

Until Toronto stops treating rapid transit like a compromise project and actually builds heavy rail where it is needed, we are going to keep repeating this exact same failure cycle.
 
As predicted months ago, the problems were never going to magically disappear once Line 6 or Line 5 opened. You can build the nicest LRT in the world, but if you don’t give it proper Transit Signal Priority, you have kneecapped the entire line on day one. And that is exactly what people are complaining about now.

Here in York, VIVA does the same nonsense: the bus sits through a red, inches into the intersection, and then stops again at the BRT station. That is not “rapid” transit, that is just a bus in a fancy jacket. And look, I will be generous and play along with the whole “Line 6 should be an LRT” framing, but let us be honest, a city the size and density of Toronto has no business relying on surface-running LRTs to do the heavy lifting of public transport. This is a 6 to 8 million metropolitan area with gridlock baked into every arterial road. An LRT forced to interact with traffic signals, turning vehicles, pedestrian cycles, construction, emergency vehicles, and weather is simply the wrong tool for the job.
TSP is frankly not even the top of this line's concerns. The train simply shouldn't be crawling at 20km/h between stations (not at intersections), and it especially shouldn't be running at 10km/h in the curved tunnel under H27/Finch. The operations here are just beyond inexcusable for a finished product running revenue service.
 
As predicted months ago, the problems were never going to magically disappear once Line 6 or Line 5 opened. You can build the nicest LRT in the world, but if you don’t give it proper Transit Signal Priority, you have kneecapped the entire line on day one. And that is exactly what people are complaining about now.

Here in York, VIVA does the same nonsense: the bus sits through a red, inches into the intersection, and then stops again at the BRT station. That is not “rapid” transit, that is just a bus in a fancy jacket. And look, I will be generous and play along with the whole “Line 6 should be an LRT” framing, but let us be honest, a city the size and density of Toronto has no business relying on surface-running LRTs to do the heavy lifting of public transport. This is a 6 to 8 million metropolitan area with gridlock baked into every arterial road. An LRT forced to interact with traffic signals, turning vehicles, pedestrian cycles, construction, emergency vehicles, and weather is simply the wrong tool for the job.

Toronto needs heavy-rail, grade-separated subway infrastructure. No intersections, no surface-level conflicts, no signal delays, no bottlenecks from traffic, and consistent headways that are not at the mercy of whatever chaos is happening above. The Ontario Line is exactly what we needed.

Put bluntly, you cannot serve a global city with infrastructure designed for mid-sized cities. LRT only works when it is fully separated or given absolute priority, and Toronto refuses to commit to either. So we end up with expensive, politically “safe” half-measures that give all the cost of rail with the performance of a local bus.

Until Toronto stops treating rapid transit like a compromise project and actually builds heavy rail where it is needed, we are going to keep repeating this exact same failure cycle.

Good LRT > Good BRT >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad LRT > Bad BRT

Finch West is unfortunately in the bad LRT category. One of the lessons here unfortunately is that we could have accomplished this outcome without investing heavily in light rail vehicles and all of this infrastructure. Conversely, if given signal priority and "Good BRT" operational design, a BRT would be an adequate solution on most Transit City corridors (and all of our arterial roads for that matter) over an LRT.
 
Wow, Line 6 in operation looks pathetic. I doubt they'll speed it up without sustained public outcry.
Just to pick on this last point of public perception, on both of my trips today, you could hear many conversations around the train about how slow it felt. This is certainly going to be something picked up by the news media this week, if not become the main talking point.
 
Just to pick on this last point of public perception, on both of my trips today, you could hear many conversations around the train about how slow it felt. This is certainly going to be something picked up by the news media this week, if not become the main talking point.
Also on social media everyone is complaining how slow it is. Hopefully this will lead to TSP being fully implemented on all LRT and streetcar lines.
 
Wow, Line 6 in operation looks pathetic. I doubt they'll speed it up without sustained public outcry.

We have had public outcry over streetcar speeds for decades now and it has led to nothing.

City hall doesn’t care and Transportation Services is entirely controlled by yellowbelters that will do everything in their power to maintain the flow of single occupancy vehicles.
 
We have had public outcry over streetcar speeds for decades now and it has led to nothing.

City hall doesn’t care and Transportation Services is entirely controlled by yellowbelters that will do everything in their power to maintain the flow of single occupancy vehicles.
Bingo! That's why it's a good thing Transit City was never built in it's entirety! We would have had more of the same. It would just be Transit In Name Only.
 
Dec 7
Who was in the lineup at 4:30 am today to make sure they would be the first car to Humber? Staff were surprised to see people lining up then. '

At 6:00 am, the lineup was almost to Tangiers Rd and by 7:00 am, it was going down it and wrapping back toward the station on the southside of the buildings. Had no plans to join the line as I was going to shoot at the portal area. Seven other people join me there to do the same thing.

I joined the line at 8:30 am and was on the LRT platform 15 minutes later. Based on the size of the crowd, I decided to catch the next car with a 75% chance of getting a seat. Got a seat with about 75% full of riders when we departed.

Came close twice, hitting the clueless drivers making an illegal left turn on the road as we started to enter the intersection.

We pick up a few riders as well, dropping off a few.

As expected, the ride was the slow boat to China to the point we sat for 5 minutes at a station,

Come on TTC, what is that paper transfer doing at Humber as well a fare box?? There are none at any of the stations between Humber and Finch. Help a few people buy tickets and Presto cards, and it can be done using cash.

I took a look at the Humber Station before heading back to Finch. The average speed was 14km with the highest speed at 46km in two spots. Travel time on the return trip was 56 minutes. We left Humber about 50% full and a full load when we hit the Finch station. The Jane stop had more riders going east than west seen from the LRV, as well as driving by them heading to the 400.

One thing that stands out for my trips is the roller coaster ride that seems to slow the speed down, regardless it was snowing at the time. Seen this in the past on good weather days.

The next vehicle system wasn't working as there was no set schedule with eastbound LRVs sitting at more than 6 stops in a row. I don't know if all 18 LRVs were online or not, but there were over 8 LRVs in the carhouse as well as the yard. One turn east from the yard, and did not catch the car number, but shot 6512 as it departed the yard and turned eastbound. Did saw an eastbound leave the line as I was heading toward the 400.

The traffic light at York Gate is a major problem as it takes too long to make the change. Moreso, when the LRVs turn onto the street or off it. The first LRV I saw leaving York Gate to go east had a bar signal to make the turn with all the lights being red. The same thing happens when the LRV is eastbound, and there must be a trip switch to change the lights after it clears the intersection.

Traffic lights are a major problem for the full length of the ROW that you need to stop at major of them after you get a green. It has been this way for years, from my experience.
 
TSP is frankly not even the top of this line's concerns. The train simply shouldn't be crawling at 20km/h between stations (not at intersections), and it especially shouldn't be running at 10km/h in the curved tunnel under H27/Finch. The operations here are just beyond inexcusable for a finished product running revenue service.
This needs to be part of the reporting on this line. Operational practices like this that are practically unheard of anywhere else.
 

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