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VIA Rail

Trackside_Treasure said:
No pictures yet of the new 'melangay' mixed Venture set, but here is another development in the Venture implementation process. CN-imposed crossing speed reductions become CN-posted Permanent Slow Orders: http://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.com/2025/08/vias-venture-speed-reductions-become-cn.html
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I finally had a chance to read through this article, and as always I'm incredibly grateful of your work to document and disseminate the Via vs CN situation.

One thing that stood out to me is your point that the Crossing Restrictions Update doesn't tell operators to prepare to stop. Maybe what CN has done is add a minimum assumed speed in the programming of the level crossings where it had concerns. After all, CN's claim was never that trains were passing through without being detected, their claim was that some of their level crossing types were unable to accurately pinpoint the location of small trains, potentially producing shorter than intended warning times. Perhaps there's a way they can program the crossing to always assume a speed of at least 60 mph, for example. Then they would have peace-of-mind about allowing normal-sized Via trains to proceed at that speed until the crossing is occupied. They wouldn't want to do this approach for the full passenger track speed, since that would produce warning times far too long for freight trains (which could lead to non-compliance by crossing road users).
 
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My pleasure, and great points you're raising. The 'be prepared to stop' requirement was one that CN applied under CROR Rule 103.1(f): "When advised by special instructions that rusty rail or other conditions may exist, occupancy of crossings with automatic warning devices must be manually protected unless it its known that warning devices have been operating for at least 20 seconds."

It was only two days after first CN Crossing Supplement was issued, that VIA amended the instructions to crews whom it didn't think were adhering to the CN instructions:

"In addition to the requirements of Rule 103.1(f), all affected movements governed by the VIA VENTURE EQUIPMENT CROSSING SUPPLEMENT must not exceed 45 mph from one-quarter mile of each crossing identified. Acceleration may only commence AFTER passing the one-quarter mile and after confirming AWDs have been operating for a minimum of 20 seconds. Note: The 45 mph restriction may not provide sufficient speed restriction to permit stopping in the event of insufficient warning time at the crossing. When encountering inclement weather or extended braking distances (e.g. rail contamination such as falling leaves), a slower speed may be required."

This additional requirement potentially made the situation worse, because there apparently are crossings that are well visible from far beyond the whistle post as operational.

I can't say whether CN has, or even offered to, adjust the times on its instrumentation because it has never admitted there is any problem, and that VIA has to amend its operations instead, in effect because it's their equipment on CN's infrastructure that in their eyes is causing the problem. The reason Grade Crossing Predictors came into use is that with uniform (i.e. 30-second) were resulting in drivers and pedestrians going around the gates. There have been no instances of non-operation, and precious few (CN Drummondville Sub warning times that led to all this) short warning times (SWTs) that it's all about CN claiming safety as their number one concern. Which of course it should be, but that doesn't mean that CN can't change its technology just as VIA has had to. Transport Canada could truly be the regulator in this schmozzle, but sure hasn't yet, if ever! Ministerial Order seems rather toothless or at least glacially slow in being moved along.
 
CN's crossing speed reductions transitioned to Permanent Slow Orders at the end of August, in a collaborative attempt by CN and VIA to reduce delays while ensuring safety at crossings. VIA Ventures' On-Time Performance (OTP) on Mondays in the past two weeks was the best it's been since the original imposition of the restrictions by CN in October, 2024. Instead of the usual 40-minute average OTP delay Toronto-Ottawa and 50-minute average OTP delay Toronto-Montreal:

  • Monday, September 1 average delays to Venture-equipped trains were 27 minutes Toronto-Ottawa (6 trains) and 12 minutes Toronto-Montreal (4 trains).
  • Monday, September 8 - a second week of OTP improvement, with Toronto-Ottawa average 22 minutes and 24 minutes Toronto-Montreal.
VIA has managed to minimize delays to five trains by joining trains 60/50 and 62/52 between Toronto and Brockville, and by operating a longer consist on trains 66 or 67 not subject to CN speed reductions. (These trains are not included in my above averages, as the average OTP for these creative solutions was only 8 minutes.)
 
I've been seeing a hard push on social from a group following/supporting the Gaspe project.

From same:

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And

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Lots more, here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/214271542097478
 
According to Doug Bardeau who creates trainset rotation diagrams for groups.io based on Reservia and other available info, no scheduled HEP2 corridor trains are expected to be operated from September 22, and only a small number of LRCs.

This is no doubt facilitated by developments like the XS-J trainset going into service, albeit not in the expected Loco-coach-cab-cab-coach loco config.

 
dowlingm said:
According to Doug Bardeau who creates trainset rotation diagrams for groups.io based on Reservia and other available info, no scheduled HEP2 corridor trains are expected to be operated from September 22, and only a small number of LRCs.

This is no doubt facilitated by developments like the XS-J trainset going into service, albeit not in the expected Loco-coach-cab-cab-coach loco config.
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That is pretty big news! So far, only one XL Venture set has been running at a time, and the XS-J set is just about to enter more regular service. Those three in service would give three more sets with axle-counts not covered by the CN-imposed Permanent Slow Orders. There's only been one HEP set east of Toronto and that was only on Fridays, most recently.

The thing no-one is mentioning is that there have been 23 Venture sets reliably available for use and in service since mid-July to cover the 13 planned Venture slots in the Corridor rotation diagram. They're out there.
 
If they had enough coaches, what is the longest they could extend the Siemens sets with the single engine? Can they have an engine at each end? How many coaches could it be extended to with both engines?
 
Allandale25 said:
I wonder if the new Minister will have more interest in resolving the VIA-CN situation than the previous one appeared to have had.
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Do we have any proof that Minister Freehand weighed in or issued any statements or responded to the Ministerial Order re: CN-imposed crossing speed reductions. Additionally, I found out from a VIA contact this week that the matter IS STILL before the Quebec Superior Court. There had also been crickets on that front.

So, court proceedings and the ministerial order are still in play even though CN has issued Permanent Slow Orders and Venture on-time performance continues at its new plateau (mid-20 minutes late Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Montreal since the PSOs went in). This represents a reproducible improvement from the former 40-60 or even 80 minutes-late range! Still not perfect, but coupled (no pun intended) with three reduction-dodging remarshalled Venture consists and J-trains, a little better overall.
 
Trackside_Treasure said:
Do we have any proof that Minister Freehand weighed in or issued any statements or responded to the Ministerial Order re: CN-imposed crossing speed reductions. Additionally, I found out from a VIA contact this week that the matter IS STILL before the Quebec Superior Court. There had also been crickets on that front.

So, court proceedings and the ministerial order are still in play even though CN has issued Permanent Slow Orders and Venture on-time performance continues at its new plateau (mid-20 minutes late Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Montreal since the PSOs went in). This represents a reproducible improvement from the former 40-60 or even 80 minutes-late range! Still not perfect, but coupled (no pun intended) with three reduction-dodging remarshalled Venture consists and J-trains, a little better overall.
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Better than nothing. I wonder if fuel consumption is an issue with J trains. Or can one locomotive be dead in tow?
 
Trackside_Treasure said:
Do we have any proof that Minister Freehand weighed in or issued any statements or responded to the Ministerial Order re: CN-imposed crossing speed reductions. Additionally, I found out from a VIA contact this week that the matter IS STILL before the Quebec Superior Court. There had also been crickets on that front.

So, court proceedings and the ministerial order are still in play even though CN has issued Permanent Slow Orders and Venture on-time performance continues at its new plateau (mid-20 minutes late Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Montreal since the PSOs went in). This represents a reproducible improvement from the former 40-60 or even 80 minutes-late range! Still not perfect, but coupled (no pun intended) with three reduction-dodging remarshalled Venture consists and J-trains, a little better overall.
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Given the general speed of matters through our court system, particularly on the civil side, expect the Venture fleet to be aged-out by time a ruling comes down.
 
Effective September 29, 2025 (a three-month pilot project) VIA will evaluate non-stop service between Montreal and Toronto involving Nos 60, 61, 68 and 69. (No 50 which will still be J-trained with 60 will also operate non-stop until Brockville.) Equipment for this pilot project will be selected to avoid CN crossing restrictions. Not sure how this will dovetail with the September 22 planned changes with the removal of HEP consists. Also not sure if that means Venture or LRC equipment.
 
Trackside_Treasure said:
Effective September 29, 2025 (a three-month pilot project) VIA will evaluate non-stop service between Montreal and Toronto involving Nos 60, 61, 68 and 69. (No 50 which will still be J-trained with 60 will also operate non-stop until Brockville.) Equipment for this pilot project will be selected to avoid CN crossing restrictions. Not sure how this will dovetail with the September 22 planned changes with the removal of HEP consists. Also not sure if that means Venture or LRC equipment.
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