Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

[generalcanada]

even though it got mentioned, its got a 2 sentence mention.

Mark Carney says he’ll slash red tape to expedite major projects like high speed rail

To counter the threat of U.S. President Donald Trump's tariffs, the prime minister and the premiers on Friday agreed on a plan to work with Ottawa to eliminate all interprovincial

www.thestar.com

To counter the threat of U.S. President Donald Trump’s tariffs, Carney and the premiers on Friday agreed to streamline paperwork required for building big projects by ending duplicative federal and provincial environmental assessments

Carney, who is calling an election Sunday, will table federal legislation by July 1 to define the “nation-building” projects eligible for fast-tracking.
“One project, one review. It’s time to build,” said Carney.

not sure if "duplicative environmental assessments" apply here

 

[Urban Sky]

even though it got mentioned, its got a 2 sentence mention.

Mark Carney says he’ll slash red tape to expedite major projects like high speed rail

To counter the threat of U.S. President Donald Trump's tariffs, the prime minister and the premiers on Friday agreed on a plan to work with Ottawa to eliminate all interprovincial

www.thestar.com

not sure if "duplicative environmental assessments" apply here

Sadly no shovels will hit the ground before the next President is sworn in. Imagine we had stuck to something less ambitious, but faster to implement…

 

[micheal_can]

Thats still unconvincing. Define "downtown" Bloor? King? Summerhill is still technically downtown

Sure, and Sudbury has a train station on the Canadian....It is in the middle of nowhere, not served by anything.

Downtown Toronto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

it is approximately 16.6 square kilometres in area,[3] bounded by Bloor Street to the northeast and Dupont Street to the northwest, Lake Ontario to the south, the Don Valley to the east, and Bathurst Street to the west

My guess is it will be Union in Toronto, Central in Montreal and Palais in Quebec City. While I am hopeful of a ~2 km tunnel to downtown Ottawa, it most likely will be the existing Via Station.

 

[CapitalSeven]

The Star article mentions:

Which is all a little odd and ambiguous. Union is at the bottom of the centre I suppose. If you try to find the geographic centre of the city, you end up somewhere around Sunnybrook Hospital, and if you draw a circle around that it would include much of the midtown corridor, Yonge/Eglinton, and the top of the Ontario Line. But that's clearly not downtown. The existing lines running into Union are the only path into downtown. Or are they? This is the more or less official map of downtown Toronto.

The midtown line and Yonge form the boundary in the top right corner. The old station (LCBO) is technically across the street from "downtown" and platforms there or at Dupont would partly/sort of be on the edge. I suppose it is a possibility. That "somewhere" is the strangest word in the article. Could they be thinking of putting a station somewhere on one of the corridors where a station has never been, or even creating some sort of spur to a new location? It seems like that would be an awful lot of money and trouble when Union is sitting there. "Seamless" means it has to connect to other modes, such as GO and the subway system.

I think the plan must be "Union if at all possible." GO could be the obstacle but we may be moving into an era of better intergovernmental cooperation so who knows? I'd like to see Ontario and ALTO jointly move on the "missing link" and taking over the midtown corridor for passenger rail.

 

[micheal_can]

The Star article mentions:

View attachment 638630

Which is all a little odd and ambiguous. Union is at the bottom of the centre I suppose. If you try to find the geographic centre of the city, you end up somewhere around Sunnybrook Hospital, and if you draw a circle around that it would include much of the midtown corridor, Yonge/Eglinton, and the top of the Ontario Line. But that's clearly not downtown. The existing lines running into Union are the only path into downtown. Or are they? This is the more or less official map of downtown Toronto.

View attachment 638631

The midtown line and Yonge form the boundary in the top right corner. The old station (LCBO) is technically across the street from "downtown" and platforms there or at Dupont would partly/sort of be on the edge. I suppose it is a possibility. That "somewhere" is the strangest word in the article. Could they be thinking of putting a station somewhere on one of the corridors where a station has never been, or even creating some sort of spur to a new location? It seems like that would be an awful lot of money and trouble when Union is sitting there. "Seamless" means it has to connect to other modes, such as GO and the subway system.

I think the plan must be "Union if at all possible." GO could be the obstacle but we may be moving into an era of better intergovernmental cooperation so who knows? I'd like to see Ontario and ALTO jointly move on the "missing link" and taking over the midtown corridor for passenger rail.

If we assume that decades from now, there is a HSR to Windsor and HSR to Niagara Falls, and once we patch our relationship, to NYC, wouldn't the Midtown Corridor be a challenge?

 

[guavadelic]

The Star article mentions:

View attachment 638630

Which is all a little odd and ambiguous. Union is at the bottom of the centre I suppose. If you try to find the geographic centre of the city, you end up somewhere around Sunnybrook Hospital, and if you draw a circle around that it would include much of the midtown corridor, Yonge/Eglinton, and the top of the Ontario Line. But that's clearly not downtown. The existing lines running into Union are the only path into downtown. Or are they? This is the more or less official map of downtown Toronto.

I don't think his reference to the "centre of the city" is meant to be taken literally. The terms "city centre" and "downtown" essentially mean the same thing.

 

[Urban Sky]

Friendly reminder that optimal locations for intercity rail stations are driven by the availability of transportation links and hubs (especially those linking into the region and other metroplitan areas) rather than offices, shopping centers or condos within walking distance. As desirable as, say, Yonge Dundas Square might be for locating these latter 3 land uses, it lacks the kind of extra-urban transportation links on which intercity rail critically depends.

Therefore, you can all safely assume that nobody will comit billions for building ALTO without ensuring that trains can and will stop at Toronto’s Union Station and Montreal’s Gare Centrale…

 

[generalcanada]

Friendly reminder that optimal locations for intercity rail stations are driven by the availability of transportation links and hubs (especially those linking into the region and other metroplitan areas) rather than offices, shopping centers or condos within walking distance. As desirable as, say, Yonge Dundas Square might be for locating these latter 3 land uses, it lacks the kind of extra-urban transportation links on which intercity rail critically depends.

Therefore, you can all safely assume that nobody will comit billions for building ALTO without ensuring that trains can and will stop at Toronto’s Union Station and Montreal’s Gare Centrale…

I mean summerhill station on line 1 is right there, could argue that's good enough as a hub

 

[T3G]

Summerhill would make a poor hub compared to Union, which, besides also having line 1, also has GO Transit, VIA, UP Express, other intercity buses, and shuttles to Billy Bishop. I would not count on any of them relocating to Summerhill.

 

[MisterF]

Why is anyone taking about Summerhill? Union is obviously the only practical main hub in Toronto.

 

[Urban Sky]

I mean summerhill station on line 1 is right there, could argue that's good enough as a hub

Sure, someone who has no idea what the word “hub” means (“the central or main part of something where there is most activity”, according to the Cambridge Dictionary) and wants everyone to realize his ignorance, could definitely argue that Summerhill is a suitable location to act as the central hub within the GTHA…

Again: Union Station is the only suitable location for Toronto’s HSR station, not because of where Union Station is located, but because of all the other transportation services which already link into it. Good luck finding “Summerhill” on the map below:

Spoiler

 

[generalcanada]

Sure, someone who has no idea what the word “hub” means (“the central or main part of something where there is most activity”, according to the Cambridge Dictionary) and wants everyone to realize his ignorance, could definitely argue that Summerhill is a suitable location to act as the central hub within the GTHA…

Again: Union Station is the only suitable location for Toronto’s HSR station, not because of where Union Station is located, but because of all the other transportation services which already link into it. Good luck finding “Summerhill” on the map below:

Spoiler

View attachment 638640

little harsh but OK sure. leave out the entire TTC network. Wasnt aware the point of the project is to connect Brampton to ottawa directly.

 

[Urban Sky]

little harsh but OK sure. leave out the entire TTC network. Wasnt aware the point of the project is to connect Brampton to ottawa directly.

Trust me, I would also prefer if “friendly reminders” were sufficient to catch the attention of people relentlessly pushing simple subway stations as suitable locations for downtown HSR stations:

Spoiler

Don’t get me wrong: peripheral stations like Summerhill might be suitable complements to downtown stations like Union Station, but it should have become abundantly clear to anyone reading the comments here why they would be an absurd choice as a substitute to them…

 

[nfitz]

As far as I can tell, it was an off-the-cuff response to an unexpected question from the media, by someone who doesn't speak English as their first language. Of course it's going into Union - which is in the transportation heart of centre-ville.

How long are we going to parse this for? The interesting question, and probably what he's been briefed to answer, is where it goes in Montreal. And I expect he simply rolled out that response - being no more specific in case he had to answer the Montreal question afterwards.

 

[micheal_can]

As far as I can tell, it was an off-the-cuff response to an unexpected question from the media, by someone who doesn't speak English as their first language. Of course it's going into Union - which is in the transportation heart of centre-ville.

How long are we going to parse this for? The interesting question, and probably what he's been briefed to answer, is where it goes in Montreal. And I expect he simply rolled out that response - being no more specific in case he had to answer the Montreal question afterwards.

You would think by now, they would have the answer that Union and Central will or will not be used,regardless of which language it was asked in. That is sloppy communications.