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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

BurlOak said:
So the worst thing that will happen if I ride without a ticket is that I am asked to leave [ and then take the next bus or streetcar]. Why bother buying a ticket?
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you get ticketed as well, the ticket is something like $200.

GO uses a strike system I believe, the first fee is something like $25, and it goes up for multiple infractions.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
So the worst thing that will happen if I ride without a ticket is that I am asked to leave [ and then take the next bus or streetcar]. Why bother buying a ticket?
Click to expand...

you get ticketed as well, the ticket is something like $200.

GO uses a strike system I believe, the first fee is something like $25, and it goes up for multiple infractions.
Click to expand...

Flat $100 according to the schedule at the back of this.

http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/bylaws/By-Law_7_EN.pdf
 
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EnviroTO said:
But without getting the ID of the person there is no way to issue a ticket. So without being able to arrest and detain the TTC is free.
Click to expand...

This bothers me too, how will you get them to pay the ticket unless you charge them on the spot? Even if you charge them on the spot, if they don't have money on them, what then? If they don't have power of arrest and the scofflaws are just kicked off the streetcar, they can get the next one.

Without a method of enforcement, I don't see how they'd pay it. For example, I have an unpaid speeding ticket in Georgia that will never be paid (partly by choice since it's unenforceable, partly because I lost it.)
 
I recall seeing GO Transit Officers take someone off a train who refused to show ID after they tried to write them a ticket. No idea what would happen after that, but they were talking back and forth on the radio quite a bit. Does anyone know?
 
So the worst thing that will happen if I ride without a ticket is that I am asked to leave [ and then take the next bus or streetcar]. Why bother buying a ticket?
Click to expand...
you get ticketed as well, the ticket is something like $200.

GO uses a strike system I believe, the first fee is something like $25, and it goes up for multiple infractions.
Click to expand...


But if the guard has no powers, I can just refuse to give my name and flee. On GO it is harder since I am captive on the train. On most of the TTC, stops are so frequent, I can easily leave without being detained. I think POP is probably the way to go, but I think the fear of being detained and given a ticket must exist.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I think the TTC needs to make the public aware of exactly what powers the Transit Enforcement Officers have and what right the public has to defend themselves against the TEOs.

For example, if I were to flee a citizens arrest, would the TEO be allowed to use their weapon against me? If a civilian were to commit some kind of minor assault, such as spitting on a TEO, can the officer use their weapon against the individual?
If a TEO were to assault a civilian, is the civilian allowed to defend themselves against the TEO and to what degree? Are civilians allowed to use force to defend themselves against TEOs if they attempt to detain or assault them? What liability would the City be under if one of these officers were to injure, kill or unjustly detain a rider? If a passenger is unjustly detained, is it their right to use force against the TEO to escape? Do I even have to talk to a TEO when stopped, or can I completely ignore their presence?


Remember that Transit Enforcement Officers are not Law Enforcement Officers. They are civilians with batons and a scary uniform. This introduces a whole new dynamic when interacting with the public.
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Wow...

Non police personnel having handcuffs and batons, and working in security/enforcement positions is hardly anything new. I just can't imagine where all this is coming from.
 
BurlOak said:
But if the guard has no powers, I can just refuse to give my name and flee. On GO it is harder since I am captive on the train. On most of the TTC, stops are so frequent, I can easily leave without being detained. I think POP is probably the way to go, but I think the fear of being detained and given a ticket must exist.
Click to expand...

They have powers to ticket and arrest on the TTC. Running from them would result in an "attempt to evade arrest" charged levied as well.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
wopchop said:
I recall seeing GO Transit Officers take someone off a train who refused to show ID after they tried to write them a ticket. No idea what would happen after that, but they were talking back and forth on the radio quite a bit. Does anyone know?
Click to expand...

This might help from the GO website:

Officers are authorized to enforce GO Transit By-laws, which govern passenger conduct, fare inspection and use of our facilities. Officers are also authorized to enforce the following statutes:

The Criminal Code
Controlled Drugs and Substances Act
Youth Criminal Justice Act
Trespass to Property Act
Liquor License Act
Sections 17, 28, 33 of the Mental Health Act
Safe Streets Act
Click to expand...

I would think if you fail to show ID, you could at a minimum be charged with trespassing.
 
pstogios said:
Getting back to a topic relevant to new streetcars:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...rs_ask_where_are_torontos_new_streetcars.html

"[Byford] said Bombardier’s current pace “doesn’t give me the confidence that will happen.”

We are screwed.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, Bombardier probably doesn't want to get dinged repeatedly for missing delivery dates, right?

Today was the first time I went to Spadina station and had one of the new ones (#4403) show up as the very first streetcar. I meant to go all the way to Union but it was short-turned at King, which meant it would be the first time I experienced the Charlotte loop. I was impressed with how well it handled the curves (well, it has to, doesn't it?) and the speed at which it turned back onto King to head north again.

Do the penalties that Bombardier pays go to the TTC, the city or both?
 
aquateam said:
Without a method of enforcement, I don't see how they'd pay it. For example, I have an unpaid speeding ticket in Georgia that will never be paid (partly by choice since it's unenforceable, partly because I lost it.)
Click to expand...
It's not unenforceable. A friend and I were traveling from Fredericton to Boston, and at the US side of the border near St. Stephen NB my friend was advised by the US customs officer that there was a warrant for his arrest, and he was handcuffed and detained right there. The arrest warrant was issued for a speeding ticket he got in the USA several years earlier and omitted to pay. So, he was told if he paid the ticket now, plus interest, he would be released, which he did, and we carried on to Boston.
 
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