kEiThZ
Superstar
Does Chow? She did drag up a NIMBY beside Agincourt to complain about track expansion. Does that mean she won't support expanded service along Stouffville?
|
|
|
2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race
- Thread starter SJD_Toronto
- Start date
Does Chow? She did drag up a NIMBY beside Agincourt to complain about track expansion. Does that mean she won't support expanded service along Stouffville?
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
You're right, it's not. Especially since John Tory said that 1/3 of the funding will be TIF and the other 2/3 from the province and Feds and never explicitly said it's a TTC project. So....good point?
Obviously you're right the 905 doesn't fund the TTC but that's part of a larger problem that I suspect (or at least hope) will soon be remedied through fare integration etc. It sure would be nice to take away the excuses people have for protecting their little fiefdoms at the expense of transit riders.
That's a fair-ish question except (much to my frustration) NONE of the candidates have even acknowledged the existence of the Big Move, far as I can tell. That said, SmartTrack comes closest to a tacit endorsement. I suspect that even if Campaign John Tory doesn't acknowledge it, Real John Tory does. Beyond that, you'd have to ask him.
As for the first part of the your, um statement, let me just say THANK YOU! No, I'm not the mayor but I think I speak for all Markhamites when I say they're grateful to you for deigning to dictate which transit service you feel is appropriate for them to use. No choice for you, Markham! Car or GO train and don't even ASK about the Yonge subway extension.
As thanks, the people of Markham would like to say that from now on Torotnonians can stick to the TTC and stay off of GO. All stations in Toronto (except Union) will henceforth be closed. TTC is for Toronto and GO is for those 905 suburbanites, dontcha know.
It does! And yet you implied that SmartTrack was entirely funded by Toronto so........
I'm not sure what your point is here....He was a bit wishy washy on that whole "I only said *A* relief line, not *the* relief line, " I grant you. But he didn't really flip-flop on it. And, look, if you want to hammer him on its obvious shortcomings, you do that. I can't shoot holes in all of them. But here's my prediction:
-Mayor Tory will commission a report from staff
-It will get bumped up to Metrolinx
-They'll say it can't be done quite that way but they're already doing RER so, hey, we can kinda-sorta do it
-It will be funded through the $15B coming to Metrolinx and, if we're lucky, new revenue tools
-It will be underway but not nearly finished in 7 years
-The DRL will also happen
-Life will go on
FWIW, I'm totally with you on the revenue tools; I was disappointed in how he shifted there. I take some solace in the notion he does actually support them deep down and it will be Wynne's decision to make anyway. If Olivia hadn't been so wishy washy on them a strong stance would have swayed me more towards her. But she was, so it didn't.
Last edited:
hper
Active Member
Yes, of course. Along with seeing other threads shut down by certain dates.
You should run for MOD.
hper
Active Member
Just out of curiosity, why "purview" (in quotes)? Isn't JGHall, when asking "one wonders why it should be in the purview of Toronto City Council to make up solutions for regional GTA transportation" using the actual meaning of the word: the scope of the influence or concerns of something? Or is there some other reason for the quote marks?
Or is the selective focus on *that word* just a rhetorical pat-on-the-head to demonstrate how wrong the apparently correct usage actually was?
Last edited:
JGHali
Active Member
Oh yes, that's right - the province and the feds are being assumed to contribute 2/3 of the cost. How many billions is that? Who's responsible for operating costs? Cost overruns? Either way, everyone in the province pays for GO. The province gives the TTC nothing toward operating costs ever since Harris eliminated the provincial subsidy.
As for Tory's flip-flop, you are being, ahem, disingenuous. Tory was attacking Chow for not being committed to the DRL to such a degree that he had (let?) Kouvalis come up with the ridiculous Twister stunt. The website is even still up!
The Grid covered this back in May
There's also the little matter of stuff like Eglinton Connects. From a Sun article in April:
Tory's record in this campaign alone speaks of no consistent policies or principles, along with an eagerness to attack other candidates for not making his once priority "Yonge Relief Line" a priority. Now he no longer even lists the DRL amongst his top priorities (as he said in his scrum last night). He has weaselled around about the Sheppard and Finch LRTs, failing even to answer a direct question about them last night except that he wouldn't "open the debate" again. Whatever that means.
And Eglinton Connects? What is his position really?
And what about Tory's inexplicable opposition to the set of service improvements proposed by the TTC? As evidenced here:
As Karen Stintz correctly pointed out in that article, it's not the TTC's job to determine the city budget process or allocations.
But, sure, Tory is "centrist" and "experienced" (though certainly not in government let alone municipal government). Why people are content to wait for "Real" John Tory to show up to replace "Campaign" John Tory is beyond me, apart from an undue credulity and seeming faith that a professional waffler and civic dilettante will help usher in a clean break with the Ford circus. You think Tory supports revenue tools "deep down"? Does he even know? Because I'm not sure.
As for Tory's flip-flop, you are being, ahem, disingenuous. Tory was attacking Chow for not being committed to the DRL to such a degree that he had (let?) Kouvalis come up with the ridiculous Twister stunt. The website is even still up!
The Grid covered this back in May
There's also the little matter of stuff like Eglinton Connects. From a Sun article in April:
Tory's record in this campaign alone speaks of no consistent policies or principles, along with an eagerness to attack other candidates for not making his once priority "Yonge Relief Line" a priority. Now he no longer even lists the DRL amongst his top priorities (as he said in his scrum last night). He has weaselled around about the Sheppard and Finch LRTs, failing even to answer a direct question about them last night except that he wouldn't "open the debate" again. Whatever that means.
And Eglinton Connects? What is his position really?
And what about Tory's inexplicable opposition to the set of service improvements proposed by the TTC? As evidenced here:
As Karen Stintz correctly pointed out in that article, it's not the TTC's job to determine the city budget process or allocations.
But, sure, Tory is "centrist" and "experienced" (though certainly not in government let alone municipal government). Why people are content to wait for "Real" John Tory to show up to replace "Campaign" John Tory is beyond me, apart from an undue credulity and seeming faith that a professional waffler and civic dilettante will help usher in a clean break with the Ford circus. You think Tory supports revenue tools "deep down"? Does he even know? Because I'm not sure.
JGHali
Active Member
Going back to this, it's one thing for a Toronto mayor (or mayoral candidate) to push for expanded GO RER in the 416 with fare integration. It's quite something else to draw lines on a map (literally on Eglinton), while plunking down a bunch of stations in Scarborough as a pandering move, and also claiming that something like SmartTrack will do anything for YUS crowding. By all means, have a conversation on regional transit and push for ambitious integration. I agree with that. But I don't like flip-flopping and I don't like plans that make little detailed sense that rely on entirely unrealistic funding models.
adma
Superstar
Though it'd be worth monitoring the "ethnic" media--if you're going to find DoFo editorial endorsement anywhere, it *might* be there...
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
You're reading too much in. I just quoted it cuz it's the word that was used. Shrug.
My understanding is the total cost is $7B and so the non-city share is like $5B but I don't take any of those numbers at face value. Operating costs? I dunno. Is it a TTC project? A Metrolinx project? Does anyone know?
I think the RER should be Metrolinx but as for "SmartTrack"....it's a mystery, I am happy to grant.
Yeah, I don't approve of everything Tory has said or done I don't know if there's a single politician who I 100% agree with. I'm disappointed in how all the candidates have handled this issue and that includes Tory.
My personal POV is that while Toronto obviously has priorities and should that we have a regional transit plan and it's time to take the planning away from politicians and local municipalities. Particularly because Toronto's transit system is obviously so much larger than the others it's really easy to pretend the others simply don't exist. So I applaud SmartTrack, not as some genius solution to regional relief or for its brilliant innovation but for at least tying in to the general idea of building off the provincial plan and using existing infrastructure.
As I may have mentioned (and as you might know anyway) Metrolinx is looking at the DRL and the RER and a bunch of other things to improve the network and take pressure off Yonge. I don't know how far TO council can take Smart Track without 2/3 of the funding (even assuming the TIFs work which....doubt it) and I think it would be pretty stupid for them to de-prioritize the DRL.
Everyone got on Kim Campbell for saying campaigns aren't the place to discuss ideas (paraphrasing, though I now recall of course it was Tory running her campaign!) and whether it's your Twister game or Chow going on and on about Mt. Dennis, the way transit has been discussed in this campaign proves it. Obviously Tory's financing plan is built on some quicksand but the other candidates (save Goldkind) didn't do much better.
Naturally the Ford plan is so absurd it doesn't bear discussion at all.
The mayor's job is to set an agenda and build consensus; it's not like baseball where you have to work your way through the minors. As I said, it's not that I don't have issues at all with John Tory but I certainly no have concerns he has the skills to do the job. I think he's done far too much for the city to call him a dilletante and I don't particular but the waffling thing either. For all his flaws, I have no doubt he actually cares about the city and wants to do the right thing (and I think the same can be said of Chow). I can't prove he supports the revenue tools "deep down" but I've heard him speak about it in person and I know he's an intelligent guy not governed by his ideology the way the Fords are.
I think Kathleen Wynne totally gets it too but out of political cowardice (or necessity; whatever) she hasn't pulled the trigger. Eventually people here are going to have to clue in to the inevitable and I wish Tory had taken the lead there, the way he was doing before he threw his hat in the ring. So, yes, I think he gets it. Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong but I'm judging him on more than just this campaign.
That's my two cents.
Last edited:
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
on a lighter note, did anyone post this yet? It's quite chuckleworthy...
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/2014-toronto-mayoral-election-943
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/2014-toronto-mayoral-election-943
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
The reason the TTC is in a complete different universe than 905 transit, is solely due to the fact that the City of Toronto is only concerned with public transit within its borders (jurisdiction). That's what municipal governments exist for and it is inappropriate for them to waste time on anything outside of their jurisdiction. That's what Provincial or regional governments are for. Someone should mention this to Tory.
As I said, pretty much everything you need to know about Tory can be gleaned from his SmartTrack scheme. Just need to look carefully and it's all there.
I think he just got tired of pretending to be Premier on his radio show, and wants to pretend to be Premier from the mayor's chair at Toronto City Hall.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Not only that, apparently something like half the ridership of the BD line is going to be riding this new commuter train (like 200,000 ridership claimed). All that with PEAK frequencies of 15 minutes. I think the estimated ridership numbers are BS....especially since it will never be built to Tory's plans.
Ford's unfunded and operationally unsustainable subways might be a joke, but at least it's proper inner-city mass transit...not Tory's suburban commuter train.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
WislaHD
Superstar
People need to get over the campaign SmartTrack and start considering how the post-campaign SmartTrack will look like.
I envision GO RER with more stations in the 416 and fare integration, and that to me sounds great.
I envision GO RER with more stations in the 416 and fare integration, and that to me sounds great.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Yeah right. The first two idiots I'd ban would be Nfitz and myself.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Right...so what's happening with the TTC then? Seems odd that the frontrunner for mayor says transit is the most important issue, yet has nothing in his current campaign that specifically deals with the city's transit system, except that he supports wasting $1.6 billion of city funding on the 3-stop BD extension.
If it were me, I would have saved the $1.6 billion and presented the 7-stop LRT as an extension of the Eglinton Line, eliminating one of the major issues people had, which is the need to transfer at Kennedy (either the BD or ELRT would have to transfer in any event)