Toronto Pinnacle One Yonge | 351.85m | 106s | Pinnacle | Hariri Pontarini

maestro said:
I welcome Toronto as a vertical city however, this proposal is ridiculously dense that, in my opinion, anyone that doesn't see it is asbeyond reason as the old people in the photograph.
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It is extremely dense, perhaps even ridiculously so, as you say, but I would look at it as a watershed or "game-changer" (the obnoxious term that has become so popular) for Toronto. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure there are residential areas in Manhattan or Hong Kong as dense as this. Of course, with a development like this, transit projects like the downtown relief line become ever more vital.
 
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ushahid said:
sorry sir I know that was disrespectful. I know u have more experience than me because im just a teenager and u know more than me. but sir when we see Toronto 38 years ago, when FCP was built, at that time Toronto was the only city out of USA to hav 6th tallest skyscraper in the wordl and the cn tower, the tallest structure on Earth for 34 years. but now cities like Mumbai, India hav taller skyscrapers. why don't Toronto built taller skyscrapers. I mean Canada is a developed country they can make taller skyscrapers. in other cities like Dubai, Melbourne, Moscow, Panama, Hong Kong etc. people don't complain about shadow or height concerns, so why in Toronto. I hope u understand and once again im really sorry.
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Hey ushahid, welcome to the forum! Don't worry about saying sorry. I think Lenser was joking around by saying that those old people would rise up like zombies to seek revenge for all that added density ;)

You're right: Toronto might be a bigger, worldlier city than it was in 1977, but back then Toronto could lay claim to having the tallest freestanding structure in the world and the 6th tallest building. That's a claim that it will never get back. Ever.

The bar on skyscraper height has been raised considerably because developing world economies have just taken off in the last 20 years, and it's just so much easier to build a supertall in those countries. The cost of construction labour is much cheaper and the risk that developers are willing to take in economies that grow so quickly is so much greater, that it will always be easier to break ground on a 100 storey office tower in Shanghai than here.

That said, if you're interested in height, we have come a long way ourselves in the last 10 years. Back in the early 2000s, a 30 storey proposal was considered tall and 50 storeys was off the charts. I remember when the first Residence of College Park building was proposed and we were all flabbergasted because it was 52 storeys. These days that's normal. Another thing: back in the early 2000s, most skyscraper proposals in Toronto were seriously lame architecturally. I remember people went crazy in 2003 because we got Spire, a building that was both tall and good looking (they used to fall into either one camp or the other). These days there are still quite a few duds here and there, but the architectural bar has been raised considerably. I never thought that we'd ever get a skyscraper designed by Daniel Libeskind, but here we are.

Look on the bright side of things...
 
Hipster read me right, ushahid. I was joking about your expression, nothing more.

And hey: no need to apologize for your opinion differing from mine. But you know, height for its own sake isn't everything, either. I'd rather see the city's growth well planned, with infrastructure that can accommodate it. I think too many people are unrealistic in their expectations of just how fast this city is going to go crazy-vertical. It's not practical. We've seen a tremendous surge of development in the core and that kind of dynamic is just not sustainable. So take a deep breath! This stuff goes in cycles. I'm sure we're going to see some exciting new towers coming along in the next ten years but I seriously doubt we're going to be able to compare with what's happening in Dubai and a host of Asian cities. The capital isn't here. The urge to take on these titanic engineering challenges isn't either. Man, we can't even get our transit act together. We have other problems to deal with that are more pressing than achieving mega-tall status for the sake of bragging rights and belonging in a rather elite club.

But I'd love to see it happen, and to be gloriously proved wrong.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Hey ushahid, welcome to the forum! Don't worry about saying sorry. I think Lenser was joking around by saying that those old people would rise up like zombies to seek revenge for all that added density ;)

You're right: Toronto might be a bigger, worldlier city than it was in 1977, but back then Toronto could lay claim to having the tallest freestanding structure in the world and the 6th tallest building. That's a claim that it will never get back. Ever.

The bar on skyscraper height has been raised considerably because developing world economies have just taken off in the last 20 years, and it's just so much easier to build a supertall in those countries. The cost of construction labour is much cheaper and the risk that developers are willing to take in economies that grow so quickly is so much greater, that it will always be easier to break ground on a 100 storey office tower in Shanghai than here.

That said, if you're interested in height, we have come a long way ourselves in the last 10 years. Back in the early 2000s, a 30 storey proposal was considered tall and 50 storeys was off the charts. I remember when the first Residence of College Park building was proposed and we were all flabbergasted because it was 52 storeys. These days that's normal. Another thing: back in the early 2000s, most skyscraper proposals in Toronto were seriously lame architecturally. I remember people went crazy in 2003 because we got Spire, a building that was both tall and good looking (they used to fall into either one camp or the other). These days there are still quite a few duds here and there, but the architectural bar has been raised considerably. I never thought that we'd ever get a skyscraper designed by Daniel Libeskind, but here we are.

Look on the bright side of things...
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thank u guyz and I understand ur point
 
Lenser said:
Hipster read me right, ushahid. I was joking about your expression, nothing more.

And hey: no need to apologize for your opinion differing from mine. But you know, height for its own sake isn't everything, either. I'd rather see the city's growth well planned, with infrastructure that can accommodate it. I think too many people are unrealistic in their expectations of just how fast this city is going to go crazy-vertical. It's not practical. We've seen a tremendous surge of development in the core and that kind of dynamic is just not sustainable. So take a deep breath! This stuff goes in cycles. I'm sure we're going to see some exciting new towers coming along in the next ten years but I seriously doubt we're going to be able to compare with what's happening in Dubai and a host of Asian cities. The capital isn't here. The urge to take on these titanic engineering challenges isn't either. Man, we can't even get our transit act together. We have other problems to deal with that are more pressing than achieving mega-tall status for the sake of bragging rights and belonging in a rather elite club.

But I'd love to see it happen, and to be gloriously proved wrong.
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no worries sir. I believe im the youngest in the forum.
 
ushahid said:
...why don't Toronto built taller skyscrapers. I mean Canada is a developed country they can make taller skyscrapers. in other cities like Dubai, Melbourne, Moscow, Panama, Hong Kong etc. people don't complain about shadow or height concerns, so why in Toronto.
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Who would be the residents or tenants of these taller skyscrapers in Toronto? This is key because we are a first world and capitalist country and our projects don't go ahead unless there is a market for them. Most of those cities on your list have completely different types of governments and agendas and they build massive skyscrapers for completely different reasons than we do here. Not to mention (almost) slave labour and lack of human rights.

What has gone on in Dubai (to show that they are Western 'friendly' on the surface) and in all the ghost cities of China with their government backed construction, is grossly unsustainable. We should never be inspired by these agendas even if the buildings may look impressive height-wise.

I will give you Melbourne as a city that has done things right. Again, different country and value systems than the others and more comparable with our country and Toronto. That's apples to apples.

But don't fret, we may get a few supertalls down the road as the market allows.
 
Peepers said:
+1

That was my thought when I saw this picture for the first time. Most of these people will be pushing up daisies by the time this project is fully built so I don't know what they are worried about.
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While I do not necessarily agree with the apparent fears of the York Quay folk I think it is good to have people concerned about things that will affect their successors/descendents. If all planning and other decisions were made with no thought of the (not so distant) future our world would be a far worse place. (It is bad enough that most of our politicians think only of the next election cycle and many of our businesspeople of the next business one!)
 
Other than transit, some attention should be paid to pedestrian traffic in the area. Though the worst intersection by far is York and Lakeshore, the underpass on Yonge is inhospitable, and I would say dangerous.
 
Automation Gallery said:
Yeah, look around at this future render

Crazy Ehh:eek:
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Are these projects that are announced, or just fantasy renderings?

Also check out this one:

skyline-render.jpg


I don't think it includes One Yonge, which would be larger than every other building in the picture.
 
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ushahid said:
sorry sir I know that was disrespectful. I know u have more experience than me because im just a teenager and u know more than me. but sir when we see Toronto 38 years ago, when FCP was built, at that time Toronto was the only city out of USA to hav 6th tallest skyscraper in the wordl and the cn tower, the tallest structure on Earth for 34 years. but now cities like Mumbai, India hav taller skyscrapers. why don't Toronto built taller skyscrapers. I mean Canada is a developed country they can make taller skyscrapers. in other cities like Dubai, Melbourne, Moscow, Panama, Hong Kong etc. people don't complain about shadow or height concerns, so why in Toronto. I hope u understand and once again im really sorry.
Click to expand...


Good urban planning isn't just about bigger. The tallest building in the world doesn't mean anything if it degrades the quality of life in the city.

Also something should be said about architecture as well. I think most of us would rather take a building with great architecture than one with poor architecture that is four times bigger.

And you're not the only teen on UT. There are more than a few. I'm always happy to see young people take an interest in their city. If you're anything like me, you may end up addicted to it :D
 
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