Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Rainforest]

How is an elevated LRT any different that the elevated Gardner?

Very different. LRT is 2 lanes wide; Gardiner is 6 or 8 lanes wide dependent on the location.

Furthermore, with some imagination applied, LRT can be built into the streetscape and look rather pleasant. Vienna's metro line U6 is largely elevated, but it is not visually disruptive.

And if its the western part of the LRt (west of Black Creek) I'd find ti hard to believe the citizens of Etobicoke would want to see an elevated LRT

It is worth to at least propose that option and ask them to express their opinions. They might not object as much as residents of the central areas. Eglinton through Etobicoke is very wide (even wider than St Clair, not to mention downtown streets like Queen) and some stretches have only highrises and commercial buildings facing the street (no low-rise subdivisions).

 

[Palma]

Very different. LRT is 2 lanes wide; Gardiner is 6 or 8 lanes wide dependent on the location.

Furthermore, with some imagination applied, LRT can be built into the streetscape and look rather pleasant. Vienna's metro line U6 is largely elevated, but it is not visually disruptive.



It is worth to at least propose that option and ask them to express their opinions. They might not object as much as residents of the central areas. Eglinton through Etobicoke is very wide (even wider than St Clair, not to mention downtown streets like Queen) and some stretches have only highrises and commercial buildings facing the street (no low-rise subdivisions).

WEll your right in the central portion they would complain - but its going underneath in the central portion so nothing for them to complain about.

Even if its less lanes it will not happen and I still think it looks awful. The difference with trains colliding on the ground is just that they are on the ground - instead of derailing. Even if it would never happen just the thought of it.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Why does it matter? Why does it kill everyone to support the thing that will cause LRT to be built in the shortest time at the lowest cost, using a plan that has been approved and funded?

If the marginal cost is low enough and the service benefits high enough. I.e. the line is able to operate fully segregated from traffic, which would improve speed, service, and reliability of the line. Than why not?

What is this Darhma and Greg??? Ohhhh I don't like being so far away from mother earth.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Palma:

While I am not the biggest fan of elevated structures (given the almost inevitable use of concrete and weathering of such), there is a HUGE difference between a relatively narrow elevated track to something like the Gardiner. It's not such a big deal if you are going through industrial or other relatively insensitive areas.

AoD

 

[BMO]

I was in Barcelona a few weeks ago where they are extending one of the Metro lines out into the suburbs/ airport, and surprise surprise , it goes from Underground (subway) to an above ground guideway above the street in the less dense portions.

 

[vz64]

Assuming that the main delays will happen when Eg LRT crosses major intersections, maybe a better solution is to build a few underpasses? Considering they will coincide with the stations, they will not halt all traffic in the same direction.

 

[BMO]

Assuming that the main delays will happen when Eg LRT crosses major intersections, maybe a better solution is to build a few underpasses? Considering they will coincide with the stations, they will not halt all traffic in the same direction.

If you have LRT in the middle of the road, it's not jsut the physical barrier of intersections, but if the LRT is in the middle of the road, it MUST travel at the posted speed limit, whereas other LRT lines in other cities like LA, or Edmonton have completely sgragated lines that can travel above posted speed limits due to cutting off access to the tracks to pedestrians and motorists.

 

[vz64]

I see. But would LRT be able to travel much faster than the posted 60km/h if it is physically separated from the main road? If I recall it correctly, the Eglinton LRT train will have speed limiters at 80km/h?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

If you have LRT in the middle of the road, it's not jsut the physical barrier of intersections, but if the LRT is in the middle of the road, it MUST travel at the posted speed limit, whereas other LRT lines in other cities like LA, or Edmonton have completely sgragated lines that can travel above posted speed limits due to cutting off access to the tracks to pedestrians and motorists.

Yet I find that the heavy rail we have running down the middle of Allen Road (AKA Allen Expressway) does not reach the posted speed limit of 80 km/h. It has to slow down and stop at the stations.

 

[BMO]

Yet I find that the heavy rail we have running down the middle of Allen Road (AKA Allen Expressway) does not reach the posted speed limit of 80 km/h. It has to slow down and stop at the stations.

Yet the spacing distance between stations on the Allen expressway are much closer than what is being proposed for Eglinton East. in fact the *edit : average* spacing between Eglinton West and Yorkdale is roughly 800m. Eglinton East spacing would be 1km or greater.

I've been on the subway where it's gone (not quite as fast as the cars) fairly similar speeds to vehicles on the adjacent expressway. The cars could be speeding, I don't know, All I know is that having the subway being fully segregated allows it to move at a quicker speed, you really can't deny a segregated line of any technology would not increase speeds on the line. I mean you're using an example where a subway is in the middle of an expressway that has 20km/hr speed limit higher than Eglinton. I'm sure the speed would be even slower on Allen if the subway had to cross Glencairn, Lawrence, and Eglinton, as well as Wilson at grade without crossing arms...your point is redundant. If Eglinton was an expressway, i'm sure nobody would worry about the LRT travelling quickly in the middle of it...because highways completely segregated.

 

[ssiguy2]

Elevation east of DM and West of BC is the ONLY way to go and contrary to popular belief most people don't have a problem with it. In Vancouver there are condos going up that are literally15 meters from the elvated rail lines and people love it. They do not have to look unattractive and actually can be made to look quite pleasant. It would also be a FAR easier sell to suburbanites when you explain to them that elevated structures won't effect traffic on the roadways unlike at grade LRT which will play havec on the road system.
The problem with Toronto is that they want to elevate LRT. Elevated LRT has the lowest capacity of subway/SkyTrain/monorail and yet is the most difficult to build and the most pedestrian unfriendly and unsightly. Elevated LRT tracks ussually have to be WIDER than the other three elevated systems because they have to have room in the middle of the tracks for the electrical poles. That creates a larger shawdow under the rail tracks. Adding to that is the fact that elevated LRT actually creates a much taller and unsightly structure. In the other three systems the tracks are the highest point of the line but LRT requires the poles for electrical so not only do you have an concrete support but then on top of that another5 meter electrical pole creating poles on top of pylons.............not a very pleasant prospect.
If the system is to be totally grade separated the most cost effective route would be extending the SkyTrain east along Eglinton.
Outside of that monorail is the most obvious choice as it has subway capacity, the most slender support structures and no solid overhead tracks like the other systems so has. by far. the smallest shawdow. and use rubber wheels which are not only smoother but quieter especially outside of the trains making then much more palatable for those people along the corridors who have concerns about the noise of the systems.
Monorail is also the fastest and least disruptive to build as most of the system is built off site and then transfer to the site. That saves a lot of labour cost.
It is also very noteworthy that Bombardier is charging ahead with monorail systems worldwide and has recently got money from Queen's Park for a monorail production site in Kingston to manufacture and display it's new systems which many transit analyst seem to think set a new benchmark in monorail technology. We all know any supplier must be monorail but the fact they could be built in Ontario in a requirement as well....................that was not an option a few years ago. The new monorail trains for the massive 50,000 pphpd 110km Sao Paulo system currently under constrcution are actually being built in Pittsburgh and Kingston.

 

[ssiguy2]

Addendum..............
There are new pics of the current construction of the Sao Paulo systems at monorails.org
On the first page at the top just click Sao Paulo gallery and look at the pics..........the very bottom one exemplifies what I have been saying about how little the actual tracks cast a shawdow and how the track is built off site and then just place on the plyons.
Needless to say I have absolutley no computer skills so if someone could put up the pics that would be appreciated.
Also interesting to note that another Indian city wants to build monorail and hopes to have it up and running by 2015 and another city wants to build an 5km airport connector to a main train station. The line is endorsed by the airport itself and most importantly the local Chamber of Commerce. The city?..................Melbourne!

 

[spider]

Am I seeing a proposal to build an elevated structure on an exclusive restricted ROW in the middle of Eglinton Ave. E?
If stations are proposed to be spaced 800M apart would vehicles only be allowed to cross the ROW at these points?
Would pedestrians be subject to these same restrictions?
Would the rolling stock be the same low floor configuration train sets that will be running on City streets in traffic?

If the answers to the above questions are yes I think there will be considerable opposition from everyone along Eglinton Avenue who is not a Streetcar fan. I anticipate an adverse reaction to building a new Gardiner Expressway like barrier down the middle of the road. Isn't having to climb stairs at every station to board a low floor vehicle a little silly?

 

[Tulse]

I really don't get the love of elevated transit -- to me it is so profoundly visually intrusive, and creates dead spaces underneath.

 

[Dan416]

I really don't get the love of elevated transit -- to me it is so profoundly visually intrusive, and creates dead spaces underneath.

If underground is too expensive, elevated is a cheaper alternative that's better than in the median.