Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

js97 said:
That I agree with. I have friends in development and they all say working with Water front toronto is a nightmare. No one wants to make decisions, no one works past 4 etc.
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What a bunch of BS.
Exactly what someone who takes Rob's word as the only word and never bothers to do any research.
My company has worked with WT and never had any type of issue with them.
The developers who say this are the ones with no vision and just want to build get the money and leave asap, in other words the developers we do not want to get involved with WT.
 
Maybe, just maybe, this plan will not be as ugly as expected... Some promising signs revealed at CBC:

Toronto Coun. Doug Ford's vision of developing a monorail, ferris wheel and mega-mall in Toronto's Portlands may be closer to reality than a blue-sky concept.

The city's economic development department has been working on the idea for months and a leading architect and a designer have also been retained.

An architect regarded as one of Toronto’s finest, Mark Sterling was hired by the city-controlled Toronto Portlands Company about two months ago to see if the plan was possible.

“There is a program of those sorts of things that I was presented with as possible things that we might look at down there to see if there is capacity for them, whether there’s an appropriate way to we accommodate them," he said.

Sterling also wanted to clarify what a monorail might look like.

“The monorail, really, is shorthand for some sort of higher order transit linking the Portlands through east Bay Street and Front Street to the rest of the city, possibly through Union Station.â€

Urban designer also working on the project
The Portlands Company has also retained Eric Kuhne to come up with ideas. He's an urban designer responsible for waterfront revitalization projects around the world.

Members of the mayor's executive committee, including Coun. Peter Milcyzn, are weighing in with their support.

“Toronto right now is one of the most vibrant development markets anywhere in the world,†he said. “There is a lot of offshore money and local money that’s looking for great sites to invest in.â€

The city's plan for this site will be debated next week.

I would skip monorail though...
 
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Marko said:
There always have been - let's not act surprised. The link itself says it's Doug who had the Hearn location in mind for a stadium, but according to the interviews, this 'new plan' has other uses intended for Hearn. If there is a stadium to be added after the fact, it will probably be north of the shipping channel in the grounds that are not part of the immediate proposal.
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Yes but I have never seen any private developer show any intrest of of yet. This I like though.
 
vz64 said:
An architect regarded as one of Toronto’s finest, Mark Sterling was hired by the city-controlled Toronto Portlands Company about two months ago to see if the plan was possible.

“There is a program of those sorts of things that I was presented with as possible things that we might look at down there to see if there is capacity for them, whether there’s an appropriate way to we accommodate them," he said.

“The monorail, really, is shorthand for some sort of higher order transit linking the Portlands through east Bay Street and Front Street to the rest of the city, possibly through Union Station.”

The Portlands Company has also retained Eric Kuhne to come up with ideas.
...

“Toronto right now is one of the most vibrant development markets anywhere in the world,” he said. “There is a lot of offshore money and local money that’s looking for great sites to invest in.”
...

The city's plan for this site will be debated next week.
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Interesting. Sure doesnt sound like the kind of people you would bring in for the sort of schlock-fest that people are more than willing to jump to conclusions about.

Also verification that the monorail isn't a monorail specifically, but an dedicated (elevated?) link of some kind.

It sounds like foreign money is looking for a secure place to put itself. Canada's performance during recent glocal financial troubles no doubt has some bearing on this.

Lastly is the comment about being opened for debate, which is a good sign.
 
The city's economic development department has been working on the idea for months and a leading architect and a designer have also been retained.
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So they've been doing this behind people's backs the whole time, and spending city money to do it. I have a hard time believing the plans were drawn up for free. How much have they cost so far?

It is still a project conceived and hatched in private. It is still a backroom deal, showing it's face after the fact. It is still contingent on disrupting the reliability of Waterfront Toronto's tax-payer funded, and council-approved, long-range plans. It will still throw confusion into the stability of Waterfront Toronto, and it's government funding. It will still be a land grab by the Ford(s), benefitting his campaign contributors. It will continue to give credit to the Ford's "profit at any cost" style underhanded assault.

No matter how pretty this plan turns out to be - and who's to say it won't have enough redeeming features that will make it hard to merely laugh at? - the methods of it's making are bad news. These are devious methods we don't want to gain political credibility and see repeated in the future.

We already have plans that need funding down there.
Transit: The entire Queen's Quay Boulevard LRT, and Cherry Street.
Flood Protection: The mouth of the Don River.
The Waterfront Bridges and Piers.
The remaining slips and wavedecks.
All the remaining real estate between Lakeshore and the Gardiner, from Jarvis to past Parliament.
For starters.

This, uh, monorail, er, overhead transit. It looks like it's at the expense of interest in the Queen's Quay Boulevard revitalization and transit right of way. Right there, that should stop it. We need to finish what we have started!
Is the TTC going to be building and operating this monor-er, overhead transit? Doesn't sound like it. Who's going to be building it, and who's going to be operating it? Will it be compatible with the TTC regarding transfers, stops, etc.? The word boondoggle comes to mind.

Less pretty pictures and diversions, please - and let's stick to carrying through on our commitments. Soon, it will be a decade before we've even seen one tree planted on a revitalized Queen's Quay. Let's see the Fords get after that, instead of playing Toys-R-Uzs for cash in pocket.
 
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GenerationW said:
Because there's no room in the CNE for an NFL stadium.
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There's plenty of room ... even during the CNE there's no end of parking lots they could put a full-size stadium on. Put replacement parking under stadium.

I don't think we need another football team in this town ... but saying there's no room at CNE for a stadium is not true.
 
CanadianNational said:
This, uh, monorail, er, overhead transit. It looks like it's at the expense of interest in the Queen's Quay Boulevard revitalization and transit right of way. Right there, that should stop it. We need to finish what we have started!
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This is what I'm afraid of. The Queen's Quay project is great and should go forward. But i have a feeling this elevated transit will turn Queen's Quay into another Lake Shore boulevard highway.
 
CanadianNational said:
We already have plans that need funding down there.
Transit: The entire Queen's Quay Boulevard LRT, and Cherry Street.
Flood Protection: The mouth of the Don River.
The Waterfront Bridges and Piers.
The remaining slips and wavedecks.
All the remaining real estate between Lakeshore and the Gardiner, from Jarvis to past Parliament.
For starters.
...

Less pretty pictures and diversions, please - and let's stick to carrying through on our commitments. Soon, it will be a decade before we've even seen one tree planted on a revitalized Queen's Quay. Let's see the Fords get after that, instead of playing Toys-R-Uzs for cash in pocket.
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You do realize that by accelerating the portlands, it would generate billions in revenues that could be directed towards the exact things you're listing, right?

As it stands, both the city and WT are saying "We don't have the revenues or funding for these things". One can feed the other.
 
I quite expect the presentation documents and renders of Doug Ford's Port Lands to be very nice. Maybe jaw-droppingly nice. Why wouldn't they be at this point?

The issue isn't one of aesthetics but of control. The city -- the people -- will undoubtedly be giving up final say in the ultimate design and construction of these properties in favour of an accelerated development timeline (and therefore accelerated cash). This is precisely what the city did with the central waterfront and with CityPlace -- amongst other neighbourhood developments --, plans for which I am sure at one time were presented as very nice pre-construction renders.
 
GraphicMatt said:
I quite expect the presentation documents and renders of Doug Ford's Port Lands to be very nice. Maybe jaw-droppingly nice. Why wouldn't they be at this point?

The issue isn't one of aesthetics but of control.
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Some have been questioning the 'control' or propreity of the change in direction, but a whole lot of the backlash has been specifically directed at the aesthetics - even though nothing has actually been revealed yet. We have predictions or connections to Honeydale Mall, The Simpsons, Madison Square Garden, Gaylord Resort, Niagara Falls, Coney Island and whatever other "schlock" or "vulgar kitcsh" they can project into the vision. They're all straw men at this point.

That the same architects who did the (well regarded) West Donlands is a good sign, as is the involvement of Eric Kuhne. Even though I was already in cautious wait-and-see mode, I'm now actually quite eager to see what they've come up with.
 
Marko said:
You do realize that by accelerating the portlands, it would generate billions in revenues that could be directed towards the exact things you're listing, right?

As it stands, both the city and WT are saying "We don't have the revenues or funding for these things". One can feed the other.
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There is much more to developing this land than generating revenue. Reckless accelerated development like that proposed by Ford will result in poor development, and we will be stuck with that for good. Moreover, it will throw away the work already done, eclipse public input and permanently ruin a once in a lifetime opportunity to produce something a great value for the city.

Maybe you can answer where the initial investment will come from? Who is supposed to fund the stadium, monorail, giga-shopping mall and gargantuan ferris wheel? Do you really believe that all of this will be done within six years?

The existing plan will generate revenue, but there is a requirement of an initial investment. That is what is taking place right now. Ford proposes to throw that all away, so he turns what has been invested into a significant dollar loss. Just as canceling the investment in the Sheppard LRT line is converted into a loss, upending the waterfront investment is converted into a loss. So if you are so concerned about revenues, you might want to ask why Mayors bob and doug are so quick to throw such investments out the window because they personally want ferris wheels and malls?
 
gristle said:
Maybe you can answer where the initial investment will come from? Who is supposed to fund the stadium, monorail, giga-shopping mall and gargantuan ferris wheel? Do you really believe that all of this will be done within six years?
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I can't answer any of this as I'm no better connected to it all than you are. All I'm saying is that maybe we should wait for this info to be released first.
 
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