nfitz
Superstar
Why? What good is a petition if there's no indication of the support.
The most obtuse thing I've seen here is a bunch of Nimby's petitioning to cancel an LRT!
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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
The most obtuse thing I've seen here is a bunch of Nimby's petitioning to cancel an LRT!
golodhendil
Active Member
Really? Where did you see that? 'Cause all I see are a bunch of YIMBYs concerned about transit in the city making one last attempt in preventing the piecemeal disaster waiting to happen in the Sheppard corridor.
Ed Drass
Active Member
Not In My Back Yard, but Under it...
Yes -- while I find the attempt to derail Sheppard LRT unrealistic and possibly counter-productive I understand how the perspective was reached. The bottom-line intent is to improve the transit network. Some potential petition signers, however, could agree for NIMBY reasons. (Or is it BANANAs? ;^)
Yes -- while I find the attempt to derail Sheppard LRT unrealistic and possibly counter-productive I understand how the perspective was reached. The bottom-line intent is to improve the transit network. Some potential petition signers, however, could agree for NIMBY reasons. (Or is it BANANAs? ;^)
nfitz
Superstar
Perhaps Nimby is the wrong word. I just don't understand how a sane, intelligent, human would think that trying to petition the end of the LRT is a good idea. The political implications alone of trying to derail a deal between the Feds and the Province makes this nigh impossible.
It's an Ottawa-type move. Note that cancelling the O-Train extension there hasn't lead to anything else happening (I'm sure it will one day ... but they were promising a downtown solution there back when I lived there over 20 years ago!).
The Sheppard LRT isn't perhaps the most necessary line ... but it's not like there was going to be money for a subway expansion ... and even if there was, most of the Sheppard LRT line is east of Kennedy where the subway expansion wouldn't even provide service to. It also doesn't preclude a future expansion.
A petition to cancel it is a huge step backwards. Besides it would never happen, and seriously reduces the credibility of anyone who would promote such a dumb-ass idea.
It's an Ottawa-type move. Note that cancelling the O-Train extension there hasn't lead to anything else happening (I'm sure it will one day ... but they were promising a downtown solution there back when I lived there over 20 years ago!).
The Sheppard LRT isn't perhaps the most necessary line ... but it's not like there was going to be money for a subway expansion ... and even if there was, most of the Sheppard LRT line is east of Kennedy where the subway expansion wouldn't even provide service to. It also doesn't preclude a future expansion.
A petition to cancel it is a huge step backwards. Besides it would never happen, and seriously reduces the credibility of anyone who would promote such a dumb-ass idea.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
While I agree with the desire for Sheppard subway extension to SCC, I would agree the opportunity for that has now set. This petition idea is late and should have occurred back when Transit City was first proposed and Scarborough councillors hadn't yet bought in. Now that Scarborough councillors have been silent on opposition for so long, funding has arrived, property is starting to be bought, and construction about to start a petition is unlikely to go anywhere. Without any council member, MPP, or MP support it will at most end up the same as the Save Our St.Clair campaign.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
I would support canceling the SE-LRT for any number of reasons and I'm not totally swayed by the logic of "we might as well build it because we can." I really can't see any major redeeming feature on this line and very little that would justify the price. Long term, it will eliminate any possibility of anything good happening on that corridor. Even replacing the subway with LRT, dumb as it is, is superior to the transfer centric crap on the table now.
There was no real reason for the City to prioritize Sheppard over Finch, and no reason why they made the entire Transit City effort contingent on one of its' weakest links. Bureaucracies often do this, coming up with one or two good ideas and taking on a whole bunch of bad ones then making the good things contingent upon the bad being funded. If Giambrone et al structured the project in such an "all or nothing" way, then that is their problem. The very idea of building something stupid along Sheppard so that a more logical line along Finch West is brain dead.
Doing nothing is usually better than doing something stupid. Sheppard East is stupid.
There was no real reason for the City to prioritize Sheppard over Finch, and no reason why they made the entire Transit City effort contingent on one of its' weakest links. Bureaucracies often do this, coming up with one or two good ideas and taking on a whole bunch of bad ones then making the good things contingent upon the bad being funded. If Giambrone et al structured the project in such an "all or nothing" way, then that is their problem. The very idea of building something stupid along Sheppard so that a more logical line along Finch West is brain dead.
Doing nothing is usually better than doing something stupid. Sheppard East is stupid.
Dan416
Senior Member
Exactly. Sheppard East is pure bull. I think if you want a Crosstown route in the northern part of the city, sure, build one. But don't carve one out of three different lines (Finch West LRT, Sheppard Subway, Sheppard East LRT). It's so stupid it boggles the mind. But hey I'm not transit expert. I just think it'd be more logical to build an LRT along Finch East and West, and finish the Sheppard subway as it was intended. Less transfers = more happy riders.
Dan416
Senior Member
Um, do you know what a petition is?
nfitz
Superstar
Yes. Something that everyone ignores!
Or at least in the example illustrated ... something that will only lead to death and destruction
Dan416
Senior Member
Finally went ahead and created the petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ttc2009p/petition.html
Oh and to those who say it's too late: a defeatist attitude will get us nowhere. Hell, it's a defeatist attitude that resulted in Toronto settling for LRT in the first place.
http://www.petitiononline.com/ttc2009p/petition.html
Oh and to those who say it's too late: a defeatist attitude will get us nowhere. Hell, it's a defeatist attitude that resulted in Toronto settling for LRT in the first place.
UD2
Active Member
I'm not signing this crap. And I hope the group here won't become the incranations of the SOS II.
Stop ruining my Toronto!
Stop ruining my Toronto!
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Whoaccio
Senior Member
Though, in retrospect, it is fairly easy to make the case that SOS was right. That probably had more to do with the terrific incompetence of the TTC, but still.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Signed. God I hope this does something.
Even if it turns into a SOS 2, that could be enough for either Miller to get booted out and Transit City to be reworked, or for higher-ups in the government to start demanding subway instead of LRT.
Even if it turns into a SOS 2, that could be enough for either Miller to get booted out and Transit City to be reworked, or for higher-ups in the government to start demanding subway instead of LRT.
golodhendil
Active Member
