GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Allandale25]

There is no mention of the train fly under but its in the drawings that are actively being worked on.

Also, for anyone new here, there was expropriation for it.

 

[Bojaxs]

Quick response while at work. Don't have time to read most of the other responses.

I wonder if this agreement with CN was part of the reason the province chose to cut ties with DB?

DB must have been out of their element when trying to negotiate with North American, Class 1, freight companies.

 

[bpbpbpbp]

https://www.reddit.com/r/gotransit/s/e0300nfGR8

someone on reddit said:
7:49am and 3:49pm towards Toronto

4:48pm and 10:48pm towards Kitchener

massive grain of salt with something like this.

Interesting, so it does seem to indicate an agreement to build a dedicated 2-track corridor adjacent to CN's in the area to separate services entirely similar to what exists on LSE through Durham.

@Allandale25 - so CN would be left with 2 tracks of their own, narrowing to 1 through downtown brampton in the pinch point, and Metrolinx would have 2 tracks from Toronto through to Georgetown?

I do wonder if they are still planning the flyover as well.

I’m also curious to know what the track ownership situation is going to be like. I would assume in principal it’ll all belong officially to CN, but MX will call the shots on 2, which becomes 1 in Downtown Brampton. Would be awesome if it’s full MX ownership (sounds too good to he true, also since Halwest and Silver exist) and if MX gets free reign of 2 tracks through Downtown Brampton rather than just one, when it gets built.

 

[Northern Light]

someone on reddit said:
7:49am and 3:49pm towards Toronto

4:48pm and 10:48pm towards Kitchener

If those times are accurate, that would seem unfortunate as they would not allow a day trip to K-W, if you took the first Toronto train out, you wouldn't arrive until the evening and there would be no return train until the next day.

 

[ShonTron]

It’s obviously aimed at the KW and Guelph markets, and probably relieving the busiest bus trips. I was really hoping it’d be four round trips, not just four one-way trips.

Getting to Guelph is ridiculously bad on the 31/33 milk run via Georgetown and Acton.

 

[Sunnyside]

If those times are accurate, that would seem unfortunate as they would not allow a day trip to K-W, if you took the first Toronto train out, you wouldn't arrive until the evening and there would be no return train until the next day.

It works out quite well for students. Personally I did not look forward to taking trains to Bramalea and bussing to Kitchener in a sardine can, or vice versa.

Day trips would be nice, but that is secondary to this segment, which represents the clear bulk of riders. This at least opens the door to better scheduling/service in the future.

 

[Metroscapes]

As others have noted, it is very suspicious that they didn't mention the flyunder. Like I said above, the flyunder was never technically required for hourly service, but was definitely a nice-to-have to reduce delays related to CN. The Kitchener business case document noted that they estimated they'd need to add 8 minutes of schedule padding (per direction) if GO trains consistently cross CN at-grade near Georgetown.

I probably don't analyze it as deep as you but I'm very suspect of a flyover not technically being required. Over a decade ago, GO would get snagged at or outside Georgetown by CN trains all the time. Perhaps a current Kitchener line rider could characterize it under existing conditions. But even with padding it seems to be such a reliability risk.

 

[reaperexpress]

I probably don't analyze it as deep as you but I'm very suspect of a flyover not technically being required. Over a decade ago, GO would get snagged at or outside Georgetown by CN trains all the time. Perhaps a current Kitchener line rider could characterize it under existing conditions. But even with padding it seems to be such a reliability risk.

I meant that it's not required from a capacity perspective. There's plenty of spare capacity to accommodate 1 train per hour. It is indeed very beneficial from a reliability perspective, hence why I quoted the 8 minutes of additional schedule padding that Metrolinx estimates they would need in the absence of a flyunder. That is more padding than there is in the existing schedule.

If those times are accurate, that would seem unfortunate as they would not allow a day trip to K-W, if you took the first Toronto train out, you wouldn't arrive until the evening and there would be no return train until the next day.

Travelling from Toronto to KW with a transfer to Route 30 at Bramalea is just as fast as a direct train. So it is absolutely possible to do a day trip to K-W. In fact, with half-hourly train service to Bramalea, the effective frequency of route 30 will presumably double, since the 2 to 3 buses per hour that already exist will presumably be spread out to depart every 30 minutes rather than all in a row once per hour.

Like @ShonTron mentioned, the main advantage of the direct train service is the connection to Guelph, since it's way faster than the route 31/33 bus alternative.

 

[crs1026]

^The capacity constraint is not just for GO, it’s for CN. A GO train needs to be lined at least five minutes ahead of its arrival otherwise it will encounter restrictive aignals and be forced to slow down. And then it would take some period of time to travel thru the crossing point. With a flat junction, At two trains an hour lined across CN, that’s effectively fifteen minutes out of the hour that CN is blocked. And it’s an even bigger problem for a freight to encounter restrictive signals, especially since it’s uphill both ways to Georgetown and there is the potential for crossings to be blocked if freights hold back.
And if those freights were slow moving, GO would have to wait its turn.
CN would undoubtedly be offering less flexibiliry if ML only proposed a flat junction.

- Paul

 

[Metroscapes]

^The capacity constraint is not just for GO, it’s for CN. A GO train needs to be lined at least five minutes ahead of its arrival otherwise it will encounter restrictive aignals and be forced to slow down. And then it would take some period of time to travel thru the crossing point. With a flat junction, At two trains an hour lined across CN, that’s effectively fifteen minutes out of the hour that CN is blocked. And it’s an even bigger problem for a freight to encounter restrictive signals, especially since it’s uphill both ways to Georgetown and there is the potential for crossings to be blocked if freights hold back.
And if those freights were slow moving, GO would have to wait its turn.
CN would undoubtedly be offering less flexibiliry if ML only proposed a flat junction.

- Paul

On top of this, my point is just that we're talking ideal scheduling. In reality, things get screwed up.

 

[ShonTron]

Travelling from Toronto to KW with a transfer to Route 30 at Bramalea is just as fast as a direct train. So it is absolutely possible to do a day trip to K-W. In fact, with half-hourly train service to Bramalea, the effective frequency of route 30 will presumably double, since the 2 to 3 buses per hour that already exist will presumably be spread out to depart every 30 minutes rather than all in a row once per hour.

Like @ShonTron mentioned, the main advantage of the direct train service is the connection to Guelph, since it's way faster than the route 31/33 bus alternative.

Again, I’d like to see a weekend Route 39, an express bus between Bramalea and Guelph via 407 and 401 with Aberfoyle as the first stop.

 

[reaperexpress]

On top of this, my point is just that we're talking ideal scheduling. In reality, things get screwed up.

We are not talking ideal scheduling. We are talking about schedules with massive amounts of schedule padding to accommodate the inevitable delays. We are talking about 8 more minutes of schedule padding to every single trip, on top of all the schedule padding they already have, which is quite a lot.

 

[anb]

Again, I’d like to see a weekend Route 39, an express bus between Bramalea and Guelph via 407 and 401 with Aberfoyle as the first stop.

An express branch of the 48 would probably be better, starting at Hwy 407 Station and Bramalea, then skipping the entire milk run of the Hurontario and Meadowvale areas, and only stop at Hwy 401/25 P&R, Aberfoyle, and U of Guelph (or skip Aberfoyle and head straight up Highway 6 instead). Also extend the overall route to Guelph Central.

 

[reaperexpress]

An express branch of the 48 would probably be better, starting at Hwy 407 Station and Bramalea, then skipping the entire milk run of the Hurontario and Meadowvale areas, and only stop at Hwy 401/25 P&R, Aberfoyle, and U of Guelph (or skip Aberfoyle and head straight up Highway 6 instead). Also extend the overall route to Guelph Central.

You are basically describing the same route, the only differences being that you're suggesting to start at 407 rather than Bramalea, and make an intermediate stop at Milton P&R. I personally prefer the non-stop option given that route 48 already exists, so running non-stop provides a more unique offering for the new service (namely the faster connection to Guelph).

 

[Allandale25]

Kitchener Line news for Mount Dennis Station in the Finch West LRT news release.

On November 16, 2025, the government will open the Mount Dennis GO and UP Station, connecting riders to GO Transit’s Kitchener Line and UP Express. In addition, Eglinton West Station will also open its fare-free underground pathway under Eglinton Avenue West, which will substantially reduce congestion at the intersection of Eglinton Avenue West and Allen Road and help pedestrians safely navigate the intersection. The ECLRT stations at Mount Dennis and Eglinton West will open to the public along with the rest of the line at a later date, at which point Eglinton West Station will be renamed Cedarvale Station.