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Scramble Crossings (City of Toronto) (Yonge/Dundas, Yonge/Bloor, Bay/Bloor)

I think there's quite a few in the GTA already to be honest ....

I know of at least one in Barrie in their downtown.

I mean nothing is stopping you from putting them at every single intersection, particularly when cars are allowed to turn. But it's not really ever needed anywhere. Yonge and Dundas is probably one of the few locations where it is due to the HIGH pedestrian density so making the crossing with the scrabble is difficult at best. Maybe Yonge and Bloor as well and a couple of others but that's it.

I doubt any of the locations where they have been built in L.A. are because they are necessary to help increase safety. They are still nice as the put the pedestrian first.
 
taal said:
Not true.
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What's not true?

taal said:
It's a different situation here. They don't want cars turning on to Yonge from Dundas ... I think that's simply a traffic flow issue and not related to endangering pedestrians.
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Which is really why Yonge/Dundas isn't a great spot for a scramble crossing. There are many downtown intersections where there is a lot of turning, and would be great places for a scramble crossing. It doesn't add much at Yonge/Dundas, and I'm concerned about the impact on the Dundas streetcars. However I'm usually using them off-peak and haven't noticed anything. Have any drivers or rush-hour streetcars users got any observations?
 
nfitz said:
What's not true?

Which is really why Yonge/Dundas isn't a great spot for a scramble crossing. There are many downtown intersections where there is a lot of turning, and would be great places for a scramble crossing. It doesn't add much at Yonge/Dundas, and I'm concerned about the impact on the Dundas streetcars. However I'm usually using them off-peak and haven't noticed anything. Have any drivers or rush-hour streetcars users got any observations?
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What's not true was the suggested implementation scheme a while back would work at this intersection and that there was something wrong with the current scheme used. Given the no turning, the scheme that they used is fine and I can't think what else would work any better!

Whether there's merit for it or not is another question, I wasn't arguing that.

That's a good point though - it doesn't seem that bad to me but I'd need to here the opinions anyone who's taking that streetcar during rush hour. Moreover, they're increasing the frequency on that route starting Novement 23 (Like they are for practically every route) so that might make the situation even worse.

But if the delay is only minor, or if there was a way for streetcars to get around it ... I think the scrabble is very successful at Dundas.
 
taal said:
What's not true was the suggested implementation scheme a while back would work at this intersection and that there was something wrong with the current scheme used. Given the no turning, the scheme that they used is fine and I can't think what else would work any better!
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In the current scheme, if you are crossing just before the scramble phase, the pedestrian light does the yellow countdown, then red, then back to white during the scramble. All else aside, that does seem wrong to me, and I can't think of a benefit to this.
 
Yeah, the situation you describe is certainly an epic fail. I hope this sort of thing is being monitored/investigated/fixed.
 
catcher_of_cats said:
The scramble crossing is coming to Hamilton at the corner of York Blvd and MacNab with the potential of some other locations in the core.
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overviewconcept2.jpg


A scramble intersection at King and James would be the next logical choice.
 
nfitz said:
In the current scheme, if you are crossing just before the scramble phase, the pedestrian light does the yellow countdown, then red, then back to white during the scramble. All else aside, that does seem wrong to me, and I can't think of a benefit to this.
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Sorry I didn't remember that part ... yep I agree with you on that. That's silly and should be fixed.
 
If that were the intention there would be a countdown on the lights the cars use.
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I guess you don't drive much...drivers look at the pedestrian crossing countdown timers to tell them when the light's about to turn yellow.
 
Hank said:
I guess you don't drive much...drivers look at the pedestrian crossing countdown timers to tell them when the light's about to turn yellow.
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I drive every day, and I do exactly the same; though often the driver doesn't have a clear view of the pedestrian crossing. However the driver primarily focuses on their own signals. If their light goes yellow, and then red, then I don't see that the pedestrian signal is going to concern them.
 
I think there should be scramble crossings at all downtown intersections with a streetcar line except Spadina and Bathurst intersections with other lines. The 20 seconds per cycle gained for vehicles should then be solely given to E-W traffic. So at Yonge-Dundas, the Dundas car should see all of the benefit, not private traffic coming down Yonge and the infrequent 97 bus.
 
When will we be seeing other scramble crossings at intersections?

At Rogers Road and Old Weston Road, there is a phase where the pedestrians have the walk signal in four directions, but not diagonally or scrambled. To me, it is a prefect candidate for a scramble crossing, maybe not as busy as the downtown intersections, but only on a request basis.

Are there other intersections in the GTA that have such 4 way pedestrian crossings that could be converted into a scramble?
 
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