GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

View attachment 486687

The Milton line experiment lasted all of 3 months. Hopefully that 21D comes to Milton as well

 

[Deadpool X]

That extra Milton train is not showing on GO website as of yet.

 

[anb]

Its a shame that 47D buses aren't running for the summer, but its completely understandable as to why.

On the bright side they did make the combined frequency between the 41 and 47 every 15 mins during peak between Hamilton and 407 Station.

 

[Northern Light]

That extra Milton train is not showing on GO website as of yet.

If you go to the 'Full Schedules' page, there is a current schedule, and one effective on the 24th.

 

[jcam]

Question...does LSW need 4 tracks to hit max service? I'm curious whether there is width to extend OL west along the corridor before going underground to go up Jane for a possible west extension. Both would have surface station at Roncesvalles. Option 1 would go underground up South Kingsway, connect at Jane Line 2, then north. Option 2 would be underground up Parkside, connect at Keele Line 2, maybe a station at Dundas/Keele, then follow CP corridor undergrounds before turning north at Jane. Both options could include an intermodal station at Jane/Dundas/St. Clair west (call it Lambton, and have OL, Milton GO, St. Clair streetcar extension).

 

[robmausser]

That extra Milton train is not showing on GO website as of yet.

Does the extra Milton train bring us back to pre-pandemic levels?

I believe the most I ever saw was 8 peak trains in and out on Milton Line pre-2020. (16 a day in total)

And was there not talks about being able to negotiate some off-peak service on Milton?

Also, I never understand what is stopping GO from running weekend trains on Milton and Richmond Hill. I realize they would need to negotiate with CP/CN, but I would assume that tracks are less busy on weekends. Surely there could be some demand for even 4 GO trains coming in and out of Toronto on the Milton/RH lines on sat/sun? Like 2 trains to union at 9am and 4pm and a train out to Milton/RH at 2pm and 10pm?

 

[LNahid2000]

The Milton line experiment lasted all of 3 months. Hopefully that 21D comes to Milton as well

Nope, 21 buses are still going to Lakeshore West stations.

 

[Allandale25]

Does the extra Milton train bring us back to pre-pandemic levels?

I believe the most I ever saw was 8 peak trains in and out on Milton Line pre-2020. (16 a day in total)

And was there not talks about being able to negotiate some off-peak service on Milton?

Also, I never understand what is stopping GO from running weekend trains on Milton and Richmond Hill. I realize they would need to negotiate with CP/CN, but I would assume that tracks are less busy on weekends. Surely there could be some demand for even 4 GO trains coming in and out of Toronto on the Milton/RH lines on sat/sun? Like 2 trains to union at 9am and 4pm and a train out to Milton/RH at 2pm and 10pm?

Speaking of weekend service for the Milton Line, it's been provided temporarily this weekend. As an aside, I wonder why this is being announced so close to the event and if that dampens awareness. They have to deal with crew scheduling and negotiating with CPKC? cc @smallspy

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Nope, 21 buses are still going to Lakeshore West stations.

Ok, I was wrong. They need to end that experiment. It's hurting ridership.

Or MX could come off their high-horse and give CP Rail a fair deal on the Milton Corridor.

 

[crs1026]

Does the extra Milton train bring us back to pre-pandemic levels?

I believe the most I ever saw was 8 peak trains in and out on Milton Line pre-2020. (16 a day in total)

According to @reaperexpress 's wonderful schedule archive, there were ten return trips each day when Covid hit. (I thought I remembered an eleventh, but the schedule shows ten)

And was there not talks about being able to negotiate some off-peak service on Milton?

Also, I never understand what is stopping GO from running weekend trains on Milton and Richmond Hill. I realize they would need to negotiate with CP/CN, but I would assume that tracks are less busy on weekends. Surely there could be some demand for even 4 GO trains coming in and out of Toronto on the Milton/RH lines on sat/sun? Like 2 trains to union at 9am and 4pm and a train out to Milton/RH at 2pm and 10pm?

CPKC's operations are pretty much the same seven days a week, although not every freight train in the plan runs all seven days.

I am confident that ML knows exactly what CP might require to add more trains (which they likely have no obligation to do under the existing service agreement). With added track, it is likely possible. But we should not assume that CP can accommodate a bigger service window just because they have quiet spells.

It's like when your neighbour asks to borrow your lawn mower when theirs has broken. Most people likely reply, "Sure, any time". But that's not license to come and habitually borrow it every weekend.

The issue may well also include things not related to CPKC eg added security, cleaning, etc that ML would have to add to open stations at extended hours. And crewing, which remains tight.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

According to @reaperexpress 's wonderful schedule archive, there were ten return trips each day when Covid hit. (I thought I remembered an eleventh, but the schedule shows ten)

Wow, I didnt realize it was 10 in and 10 out at one point. 20 trains a day! You'd think it would be better to run some of those trains in reverse peak rather than all in and out. But what do I know.

CPKC's operations are pretty much the same seven days a week, although not every freight train in the plan runs all seven days.

If thats the case, then you'd assume they would be able to accommodate a couple of trains saturday and sunday if they were able to accommodate 20 on the weekday.

 

[smallspy]

According to @reaperexpress 's wonderful schedule archive, there were ten return trips each day when Covid hit. (I thought I remembered an eleventh, but the schedule shows ten)

As I recall and have written down, an 11th train was tentatively scheduled to start in April 2020.

If thats the case, then you'd assume they would be able to accommodate a couple of trains saturday and sunday if they were able to accommodate 20 on the weekday.

Ish.

CP has blocked out their schedules to free up the section from West Toronto to Milton during the morning and afternoon rush hours. This means that yes, there is a 3 hour window in the morning and a 4 hour window in the afternoon on the weekends where they could schedule a couple of trains to travel back and forth.

And in fact, this is what GO had intended to do.

But the issue is that CP still had lots of freights scheduled between those two slots, and so having GO trains running back and forth while CP's own trains are running would be problematic (in their eyes). And so there would be a couple of round trips in the morning between 6 and 9am, and another couple between 3 and 7pm - and nothing more outside of those times.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

But the issue is that CP still had lots of freights scheduled between those two slots, and so having GO trains running back and forth while CP's own trains are running would be problematic (in their eyes). And so there would be a couple of round trips in the morning between 6 and 9am, and another couple between 3 and 7pm - and nothing more outside of those times.

Frequent service is obviously not happening until there's significant and expensive upgrades.

But would a train every couple of hours be a big deal? Many lines accommodate non-frequent passenger trips; even CPKS. (as did this line, past Milton, until the 1960s). Even running to Streetsville would be an improvement.

 

[crs1026]

Frequent service is obviously not happening until there's significant and expensive upgrades.

But would a train every couple of hours be a big deal? Many lines accommodate non-frequent passenger trips; even CPKS. (as did this line, past Milton, until the 1960s). Even running to Streetsville would be an improvement.

The problem is simply, the track window CP has to clear to run two trains 90 minutes apart is almost the same window as it provides to run eight trains spaced every 15 minutes.

And, every station has to be opened, and cleaned, and patrolled for the same window.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

The problem is simply, the track window CP has to clear to run two trains 90 minutes apart is almost the same window as it provides to run eight trains spaced every 15 minutes.

It's 3-4 tracks to just before Dixie GO. And then 2 tracks to Cooksville, and 3 again to north of 403. And then 2 tracks to Guelph Junction. After that it's only 1 track. I'm not sure how they can manage operation on one track (including the presumably heavier-used Toronto to Montreal track) elsewhere, but need to clear a 3-hour window for the occasional passenger run. If they run to Meadowvale, they can easily run a single train, every 2 hours.

And, every station has to be opened, and cleaned, and patrolled for the same window.

I've seen some stations unstaffed and locked stations when trains are running. And have never seen security and cleaning staff at the station (other than the occasional person cleaning the floors in the locked station).