Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

Voltz said:
They have also had missing curves that were approved and planned to be added in, but forgotten about when it came time to rebuild those intersections
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Those "missing curves" are all not so subtle attempt to undermine streetcars and permanently replace them with buses. Also why projects like the King-Queen-Roncesvalles-Queensway intersection is taking so long, to sabotage streetcars.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Those "missing curves" are all not so subtle attempt to undermine streetcars and permanently replace them with buses. Also why projects like the King-Queen-Roncesvalles-Queensway intersection is taking so long, to sabotage streetcars.
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This is some conspiracy-theory nonsense. You're better than that, Walter.
 
smallspy said:
I the number of curves that have been removed from existing intersections can be counted on with one hand - they generally just don't do that. (In fact, I can think of only one intersection within my 40+ years on this planet - Howard Park and Dundas.) The TTC's trend is to add curves where necessary, but also to do so without waste.

Dan
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So; I know disagreeing w/you (Dan) on such things would be dangerous territory, LOL

But I couldn't resist checking w/another expert to see if his memory aligned w/that.

So the feedback I got is that you're right in terms of the last 40 years; but in fact more curves were removed, including at Dundas/Church, during WWII due to a steel shortage.

Also noted was that various loops also facilitated some turning movements (via the loop) which were never replaced when the loops were removed; with a couple of exceptions most of the removals date from the opening of the Yonge subway or before; though not all.

It was mentioned that many of what I consider logical network additions weren't previously needed because of additional route density in the downtown core; but as those routes (including Yonge) were removed, they would have become useful.

The TTC did issue a report back in 2010 noting that it should move to install curves at both Broadview/Gerrard and Church/Carlton and yet when both intersections came up for reconstruction, they failed to build in the missing loops.
 
Another 53 trees... :( https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projects-and-programs/ontario-line/get-involved/community-documents


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generalcanada said:
interesting, im actually curious, with the north OL guideway not starting construciton for 3 years at least. what does the RSSOM package include for the north portion of the line? just the maintenance yard? this area doesnt include that, so this is some very early tree removals
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The text says it's being done now to avoid bird nesting season, and will be for advance work such as utility relocations and road reallignments to free up adjacent work areas.

The notice is quite poorly written. It reads like a bunch of disjointed statements.
 
Northern Light said:
So; I know disagreeing w/you (Dan) on such things would be dangerous territory, LOL

But I couldn't resist checking w/another expert to see if his memory aligned w/that.

So the feedback I got is that you're right in terms of the last 40 years; but in fact more curves were removed, including at Dundas/Church, during WWII due to a steel shortage.

Also noted was that various loops also facilitated some turning movements (via the loop) which were never replaced when the loops were removed; with a couple of exceptions most of the removals date from the opening of the Yonge subway or before; though not all.

It was mentioned that many of what I consider logical network additions weren't previously needed because of additional route density in the downtown core; but as those routes (including Yonge) were removed, they would have become useful.

The TTC did issue a report back in 2010 noting that it should move to install curves at both Broadview/Gerrard and Church/Carlton and yet when both intersections came up for reconstruction, they failed to build in the missing loops.
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Well, truth be told, you're not really disagreeing with me.

But yes, there were other curves that have been removed further in history, but they're usually associated with conversions from streetcars to buses, and the resultant removal of "unnecessary" trackage.

The reality is that since the end of the plan to replace streetcars in the mid-1970s, there haven't really been any substantial removals. The odd loop here and there (Hillside Wye, Townsley Loop, etc) have been removed, but generally what has happened has been net additions to the system not taking into account the new routes created since then. They've been small, but there have been many, many new curves introduced at existing intersections since then. And in a lot of cases, those additional curves have been to allow for better diversion or short-turn possibilities.

I'm well aware of that report, and its plans - not just of additional curves, but also of potential plans for additional non-revenue trackage and loops. And of the TTC's "forgetting" of adding the additional, planned curves. Meanwhile, at Lakeshore and Kipling they have recently added the one "missing" curve to that intersection and so cars can now enter Kipling Loop from both the east and the west - even though this was never noted in that report.

Dan
 

Shuttle buses may not be required along Queen Street for as long as initially thought​

From link.

Shuttle buses may not be replacing streetcars along a portion of the busy 501 Queen route for as long as initially thought.

TTC officials had previously estimated that it would take another 20 months to complete the installation of streetcar tracks along Adelaide Street and allow for the diversion of the 501 route around subway construction without the need for shuttle buses.

But on Friday members of the city’s general governance committee voted to hand Midome Construction Services Ltd. a nearly $40 million sole-source contract with the understanding that they will complete the work by March,2024.
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Shuttle buses will still be required to supplement service along the 501 Queen route for about 10 months, starting in May.

This is due to the long-term closure of Queen Street between York and Bay streets to accommodate Ontario Line construction.

The sole-source contract, which still needs to be approved by city council, was proposed by staff after it became clear that Metrolinx would not be able to complete the track work prior to the beginning of construction on Queen Street.

The provincial transit agency had initially committed to complete the work necessary to divert a downtown portion of the 501 Queen route along Adelaide and Richmond streets for the four years that the Queen Street closure is required.

However, in a report tabled at the TTC board last week staff said that a utility issue was identified that “surpassed previous expectations and has delayed the start of the construction of the streetcar tracks for the diversion.”

Midome Construction Services Ltd. is being asked to complete 570 metres of streetcar track installation, in part, because they are already contracted to handle watermain replacement work in the area.
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“This demonstrates to us how utterly devastating the mistake was when we handed construction and transit planning up to the province of Ontario,” Coun. Gord Perks said during Friday’s meeting. “We made an agreement with them that they would provide a streetcar diversion while the work on Queen Street was taking place. They looked at it, they discovered that it was actually hard to build and construct streetcar tracks in an urban area and they panicked and said ‘let’s run buses instead.’ But the TTC, who actually do understand how to deliver transit in an urban area, said that was unacceptable and not only did they come up with an alternative, they found an existing contract to do sewer work and found a way to piggyback doing the diversion into that contract.”

The 15-stop, 15.6-kilometre Ontario Line will run from Exhibition Place through the downtown core along Queen Street before heading north to the Ontario Science Centre. It is currently scheduled to be completed by 2031.
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smallspy said:
And of a totally different and incompatible design.

How much of the subway is closed today? Hint: it's none.

Dan
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Talking about the SRT, not the heavy rail subway. See link. Last updated: Mar 04, 9:39 AM

​

Line 3​

"No service between Kennedy and McCowan due to weather conditions. Shuttle buses are running between Kennedy and McCowan."​

 
Yeah, we
W. K. Lis said:
Talking about the SRT, not the heavy rail subway. See link. Last updated: Mar 04, 9:39 AM

​

Line 3​

"No service between Kennedy and McCowan due to weather conditions. Shuttle buses are running between Kennedy and McCowan."​

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Yes, all of us know this.

The point is that if it was the use of third rail that was the inherent problem, we would see the subway shut down too, and no such thing has occurred.

And if we're at the point where trains are struggling with the third rail, I'm pretty sure things would be pretty bad for catenary power, too. Overhead wire can freeze over and cause traction problems, too. The whole debate of third rail vs. catenary that I have seen here seems very light on facts and very heavy on conjecture and personal feelings. Much as most transit debates are.
 
T3G said:
Yeah, we

Yes, all of us know this.

The point is that if it was the use of third rail that was the inherent problem, we would see the subway shut down too, and no such thing has occurred.

And if we're at the point where trains are struggling with the third rail, I'm pretty sure things would be pretty bad for catenary power, too. Overhead wire can freeze over and cause traction problems, too. The whole debate of third rail vs. catenary that I have seen here seems very light on facts and very heavy on conjecture and personal feelings. Much as most transit debates are.
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I think that's mostly on the part of the anti-wire crowd. I'm kind of ambivalent, and assume that the engineers involved selected catenary because it is the best solution when all factors are considered. I mean, if catenary is the wrong solution for OL, then GO Expansion is doomed.
 
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