GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[smallspy]

Does CP have the capacity?

I thought CP has essentially given GO a free hand within the existing operating hours.

CP has given GO unfettered access in one direction only for the 3-ish hour period in the morning and 4-ish hour period in the afternoon.

A counter-peak train would be at odds to this and would lose them what little capacity remained during those periods. They were willing to allow 2-direction service on the weekends as GO was only looking to run a train hourly.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

CP has given GO unfettered access in one direction only for the 3-ish hour period in the morning and 4-ish hour period in the afternoon.

A counter-peak train would be at odds to this and would lose them what little capacity remained during those periods. They were willing to allow 2-direction service on the weekends as GO was only looking to run a train hourly.

Dan

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

 

[kalis0490]

I'm thinking GO should run hourly Kitchener - Guelph shuttle service . (long before 2dawgo) This is entirely possible with the existing track. Kitchener - Guelph have a 0% transit share despite having 30,000 people travel between the two daily (more people than kitchener - toronto travel). the train takes 2 times less time than driving. I'm sure 1000s would take this kind of service.

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm thinking GO should run hourly Kitchener - Guelph shuttle service . (long before 2dawgo) This is entirely possible with the existing track.

There is currently construction ongoing in Kitchener, Gueph and Breslau, which would be delayed by increased service. And once that construction is complete (supposedly next year but more likely 2024), there will be hourly all day service from Kitchener to Toronto.

Kitchener - Guelph have a 0% transit share despite having 30,000 people travel between the two daily (more people than kitchener - toronto travel). the train takes 2 times less time than driving. I'm sure 1000s would take this kind of service.

How can there be a 0% transit share when people already use the existing GO trains to travel between Kitchener and Guelph?

 

[Krypto98]

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

Which is currently 105 territory and in pretty bad shape

 

[kalis0490]

There is currently construction ongoing in Kitchener, Gueph and Breslau, which would be delayed by increased service. And once that construction is complete (supposedly next year but more likely 2024), there will be hourly all day service from Kitchener to Toronto.


How can there be a 0% transit share when people already use the existing GO trains to travel between Kitchener and Guelph?

What im talking about is a temp shuttle while the capabilities for 2wadgo to Toronto built.

Just because the Brampton bottleneck exists doesn't mean that Kitchener -Guelph service should be be completely dependent on that work. In the long term, there should be enough demand for 15 minutes service between the two cities.


Point 2) Ive never more than 2 people travel between Kitchener and Guelph on the trains Ive took.
2ppl/train*8 trains/per day*2 directions = 32 people. 32/30,000 = 0.106% of the total demand is on public transit - basically 0%


Waterloo made that Cambridge business case for GO to look through - the onus is on GO to actually take a look at it

 

[reaperexpress]

What im talking about is a temp shuttle while the capabilities for 2wadgo to Toronto built.

Yes I know. And I'm telling you that it's a bad idea. It was a good idea ten years ago, but now that construction has begun on AD2W infra between KW and Guelph, it makes more sense to just wait until construction is complete and we can introduce regular, dependable service.

That shuttle would not be a dependable service. It couldn't run while CN, Via or peak GO trains are using singular existing track, or when the line is shut down for construction. It really doesn't seem worthwhile to increase the cost of construction, use chronically scarce crews and delay the introduction of regular hourly service from KW to Toronto just for a few intermittent shuttle trips between Kitchener and Guelph.

Just because the Brampton bottleneck exists doesn't mean that Kitchener -Guelph service should be be completely dependent on that work.

It has nothing to do with the Brampton bottleneck. The construction for AD2W is happening in Kitchener, Breslau, Guelph, Acton and Georgetown. The expansion east of Georgetown will occur while hourly service is already running to Kitchener.

In the long term, there should be enough demand for 15 minutes service between the two cities.

There is certainly a lot of demand between Kitchener and Guelph, but how much of it can easily get to and from the current Kitchener station? It has poor transit connections, poor walking and cycling access and not very much parking. The new Central Station will have orders of magnitude better connectivity, and would thereby capture more of the demand. And guess what: as soon as that station opens, there will be regular hourly service to Guelph.

 

[kalis0490]

Yes I know. And I'm telling you that it's a bad idea. It was a good idea ten years ago, but now that construction has begun on AD2W infra between KW and Guelph, it makes more sense to just wait until construction is complete and we can introduce regular, dependable service.



That shuttle would not be a dependable service. It couldn't run while CN, Via or peak GO trains are using singular existing track, or when the line is shut down for construction. It really doesn't seem worthwhile to increase the cost of construction, use chronically scarce crews and delay the introduction of regular hourly service from KW to Toronto just for a few intermittent shuttle trips between Kitchener and Guelph.



It has nothing to do with the Brampton bottleneck. The construction for AD2W is in Kitchener, Breslau, Guelph, Acton and Georgetown. The expansion east of Georgetown will occur while hourly service is already running to Kitchener.



There is certainly a lot of demand between Kitchener and Guelph, but how much of it can easily get to and from the current Kitchener station? It has poor transit connections, poor walking and cycling access and not very much parking. The new Central Station will have orders of magnitude better connectivity, and would thereby capture more of the demand. And guess what: as soon as that station opens, there will be regular hourly service to Guelph.

It sucks that Waterloo does not have enough money for the New Station and upper levels of Government haven't funded the difference. While York Region somehow always has money for bad projects (Bloomington, Cornell Station).


Additionally Guelph wants to build a bus station at the West End Library by 2030, Could this is be a good spot for an infill rail station?

Does anyone have an idea how serious the Cambridge Go idea is as this point? I don't think GO has acknowledged its existence.

 

[reaperexpress]

It sucks that Waterloo does not have enough money for the New Station and upper levels of Government haven't funded the difference. While York Region somehow always has money for bad projects (Bloomington, Cornell Station).

The new station has 43 million dollars of provincial funding and construction was scheduled to start this month ( not sure if it actually has or not). The June 2021 project update stated that the station was expected to open in summer 2023, but given the delays in starting construction, it seems more likely that it will open in 2024. The funding Waterloo is seeking is for the station building and adjacent plaza, which will be omitted from the current construction.

Additionally Guelph wants to build a bus station at the West End Library by 2030, Could this is be a good spot for an infill rail station?

At a quick glance, that does seem to be a good potential location for a rail station which could serve as Guelph's park-and-ride, while also serving as a west-end bus terminal. It seems prudent to position the new bus terminal such that it could provide a convenient connection to a potential future rail station.

It would also be cool to have a "Guelph West" station, since "Guelph Central" implies the existance of other stations in Guelph. (Yes I realize that "Guelph West" is not consistent with Metrolinx's insane station naming guidelines).

 

[crs1026]

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

A proposal, not a plan.

This past summer, CN imposed some tough restrictions on its own use of the Guelph & Galt. Suffice it to say, no passenger train will be using that line at more than 10 mph without a great deal of upgrading. Even if funding were available, It would likely take until 2025 or beyond to fix the underlying problem.

- Paul

 

[Krypto98]

A proposal, not a plan.

This past summer, CN imposed some tough restrictions on its own use of the Guelph & Galt. Suffice it to say, no passenger train will be using that line at more than 10 mph without a great deal of upgrading. Even if funding were available, It would likely take until 2025 or beyond to fix the underlying problem.

- Paul

As far as I know it's been degraded to a rule 105 spur...

 

[Bordercollie]

A proposal, not a plan.

This past summer, CN imposed some tough restrictions on its own use of the Guelph & Galt. Suffice it to say, no passenger train will be using that line at more than 10 mph without a great deal of upgrading. Even if funding were available, It would likely take until 2025 or beyond to fix the underlying problem.

- Paul

Another example of railroad looking at profits not repairing infrastructure.

How many trains a week does this route see?

 

[crs1026]

Another example of railroad looking at profits not repairing infrastructure.

How many trains a week does this route see?

A roadswitcher is usually based in Preston working 5 days per week. The job splits its time between serving customers in Cambridge and doing switching work around Guelph.

A more apt question would be, how many carloads a week does the branch generate. I wouldn’t say CN has underinvested for the amount of business. CN did do some rehab after GEXR left.

The point is, just because a rail line appears on the map doesn’t mean it is readily used for passenger trains. The last passenger train on the G&G was sixty years ago….. no one expects CN to keep a line up for that long in hopes that passenger traffic will return.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

With The QEW being a parking lot At Hurontario where traffic will being using the 1/2 lanes of off/on ramp for the close QEW on Oct 28-31, I am assuming GO will have "ALL" the QEW buses on detour or run the buses to/from Oakville with riders use the GO train to/from Oakville to Union Station. Travel time will be a lot longer than normal that weekend as well on Monday itself.

Until they rebuilt the centre barrier on the east side of Hurontario, traffic will be reduce to 2 lanes both direction with mid week to be back to 3 lanes.

 

[smallspy]

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

The Fergus Sub has nothing to do with service to the east of Milton and in to downtown Toronto. That's where the restriction lies.

Dan