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Cabbagetown

It would be another dark day in Toronto's architectural history if all of those blocks were demolished. They weren't some cookie cutter buildings but the work of Peter Dickinson. Their materials and urban form somewhat reminds me of the generic blocks found across suburban Toronto but that window pattern and the fact that they lack balconies makes them unique. The units are two stories. Regent Park South and the Riverdale Hospital shouldn't suffer the same fate as Bata or Union Carbide.
 
I like how St. Bart's uses their land as allotments for people to grow veggies. I believe that most of these people live in the Regent Park, so they don't have gardens where they can grow their own. With the price of food rising so much lately, and awareness that there are alternatives to trucking produce up from California, I hope they can continue to do so.
 
The Town Grill is dead. I'm not sure if we mentioned that.

The owner sold it, and is now at The Left Door/Ben Wicks.

The new Town Grill owner closed the place down shortly after. The tables are still set....
 
police sweep of Cabbagetown South

I've ony dined at the Town Grill once, and found it far more expensive and no more better for food or service than the fixed price menu at Peartree.

Interesting news on CBC this morning about the police crime sweep of Cabbagetown South, plus article here http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/409008 though I imagine OCAP isn't pleased.
 
I've ony dined at the Town Grill once, and found it far more expensive and no more better for food or service than the fixed price menu at Peartree.

Interesting news on CBC this morning about the police crime sweep of Cabbagetown South, plus article here http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/409008 though I imagine OCAP isn't pleased.

I'm not really excited. It's the typical "top-down" approach to crime. Everyone arrested will be replaced soon enough.
 
I'm not really excited. It's the typical "top-down" approach to crime. Everyone arrested will be replaced soon enough.
Agreed, 100%. The vast majority of those arrested for anything in Toronto, from violent crimes to robbery are repeat offenders, in many cases out on bail or parole.

If you want to clear out crime from downtown east, you've got to abandon the usual newage approaches of harm reduction, injection sites, outreach workers, blaa, blaa... and instead go after the structures that support the sustainability of the crime element in the area.
 
I'm not really excited. It's the typical "top-down" approach to crime. Everyone arrested will be replaced soon enough.

Yes, 40 years of these "sweeps" and drugs are still widely available everywhere. On the plus side, jails are a lot more full. Sigh.

On the local business front, the new Wing Machine still does not have its LLBO license. I'm starting to think they shouldn't get one, as the new local hobo was in there the other night (older man, long grey hair, seems unable to speak) looking for beer, and not seeming to understand that they don't have any. I worry who'll be in there once those taps do open, and if the staff (they only have one young female speaking weak English herself) will be able to handle it.

The Chapter 11 pub moved to the Annex, which is too bad, as it was a nice place to go when the HOP is too busy. I don't like the food at Ben Wick's (the kitchen is said to be vile), and I wouldn't ever go to Brass Taps if they didn't have a pool table. Hopefully that JavaVille location does become a Firk'n.
Also, on the bar/pub tip, the horrid "Angel Queen" seems to be under new management, and according to the hardware store bought letters on the door it's now "Blue Ice", which is hilarious. It's busy on the weekends, but seems somewhat less likely to have a shooting occur than it did before.

I went to Chew Chew's on Sunday for breakfast, and it was pretty darned good. A welcome addition to the neighbourhood.

Also, the building on Aberdeen and Parliament has been horded and the hole dug. Then they stopped what they were doing and disappeared for weeks. Who knows.

Also, the town homes just north of blockbuster video still have for sale signs, and the "retail" part hasn't been touched since the snow started falling.
 
Agreed, 100%. The vast majority of those arrested for anything in Toronto, from violent crimes to robbery are repeat offenders, in many cases out on bail or parole.

If you want to clear out crime from downtown east, you've got to abandon the usual newage approaches of harm reduction, injection sites, outreach workers, blaa, blaa... and instead go after the structures that support the sustainability of the crime element in the area.

Now, i'm no big lefty here (i'd say i'm libertarian lite). But are there any harm reduction, or injection sites, in downtown east? In Toronto? I would say the usual approach is what they've just done. Harm reduction and injection sites are a new trend, but crime sweeps are as old as your grandparents. Not to say they're completely ineffective. But they cannot be done in isolation. I would prefer a whole different policing approach like New York's under Gulianni, then this piecemeal photo-op, make it look like we're doing something approach.

Also, the structures that support the sustainability of the crime element are largely the profitability of illegal drugs. It's an easy way to make money. The easiest, if you don't mind going to jail every once and a while. Repeat offenders are first offenders at some point.
 
These harm reduction programs do nothing to stop crime in a neighbourhood, as the junkies must still steal or prostitute themselves to afford their drugs.

If you've got rats in your house, you don't leave food in one place so that they won't destroy or harm your house...No you take out the rats. And yes, I'm comparing the street criminals of my area to vermin. If anything, harm reduction sites prolong the issue, since we're extending the street life of the junkies were trying to get rid of. Yes they're people too....but as soon as you start stealing and committing crimes to feed your lifestyle, then you've become everyone else's problem.

Take out the large shelters which contravene the city's maximum number of beds per shelter by the hundreds, and force the other parts of the city to take many more smaller shelters in their areas. Eliminate all illegal rooming houses and place strict controls over the legal rooming houses, making smaller shelters and legal rooming houses responsible for those they shelter, with controls or bans on those on parole or with criminal records. Make it illegal for those on parole or probation to enter the downtown area if they're convicted of street related crimes (drugs, prostitution, etc...). In short, take out the population that causes the trouble, and the trouble will certainly move on, but hopefully in dilluted form if well managed.
 
These harm reduction programs do nothing to stop crime in a neighbourhood, as the junkies must still steal or prostitute themselves to afford their drugs.

I don't know that removing these things is going to change any of that, either. Until i see some empirical evidence saying they help or hinder, I'm going to remain indifferent to them. Although I agree keeping all of them in one area is a recipe for trouble.

Take out the large shelters which contravene the city's maximum number of beds per shelter by the hundreds, and force the other parts of the city to take many more smaller shelters in their areas. Eliminate all illegal rooming houses and place strict controls over the legal rooming houses, making smaller shelters and legal rooming houses responsible for those they shelter, with controls or bans on those on parole or with criminal records. Make it illegal for those on parole or probation to enter the downtown area if they're convicted of street related crimes (drugs, prostitution, etc...). In short, take out the population that causes the trouble, and the trouble will certainly move on, but hopefully in dilluted form if well managed.

I agree that certain neighbourhoods take on more than their fair share of these duties. I was thrilled when the Salvation Army didn't open on Parliament. I think cabbagetown does more than it's fair share, and i would love it if there were more shelters in other areas to disperse some of the extreme poverty to other areas of the city. There is definitely a case for your idea of a "critical mass" for this type of thing. I think at a certain point, it becomes more than the some of its parts, and cabbagetown has surpassed that point.

However, the idea that people on parole or probation should not be downtown is ridiculous and wrong. Even people with criminal records have their rights as citizens, and I would much, much, rather live somewhere where this was true than have a place sterilized by a system such as the one you've proposed. Can you imagine the powers you'd have to give the police to enforce such a system? Terrifying. No, Mr. Beez, it is their right to be wherever they want, although not to do whatever they want. That's when the power of the state should be used. What you are proposing smacks of fascism. It's amazing to me what you're willing to do to others so that you may live in your utopia.

Also, it is sad you see all these people as vermin. Some have major mental disorders and are receiving no help from anyone. Can you really see a schizophrenic on the street and feel disdain for them? No pity?

As Mr. Ebeneezer Scrooge said "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

Moreover, you'd be surprised how many non-vermin are involved in the drug trade. Maybe your doctor, or a TTC driver, or lawyer, or your children's teacher, wouldn't be able to go to work downtown due to being caught with a bit of hash in their house.
 
I don't know that removing these things is going to change any of that, either. Until i see some empirical evidence saying they help or hinder, I'm going to remain indifferent to them. Although I agree keeping all of them in one area is a recipe for trouble.



I agree that certain neighbourhoods take on more than their fair share of these duties. I was thrilled when the Salvation Army didn't open on Parliament. I think cabbagetown does more than it's fair share, and i would love it if there were more shelters in other areas to disperse some of the extreme poverty to other areas of the city. There is definitely a case for your idea of a "critical mass" for this type of thing. I think at a certain point, it becomes more than the some of its parts, and cabbagetown has surpassed that point.

However, the idea that people on parole or probation should not be downtown is ridiculous and wrong. Even people with criminal records have their rights as citizens, and I would much, much, rather live somewhere where this was true than have a place sterilized by a system such as the one you've proposed. Can you imagine the powers you'd have to give the police to enforce such a system? Terrifying. No, Mr. Beez, it is their right to be wherever they want, although not to do whatever they want. That's when the power of the state should be used. What you are proposing smacks of fascism. It's amazing to me what you're willing to do to others so that you may live in your utopia.

Also, it is sad you see all these people as vermin. Some have major mental disorders and are receiving no help from anyone. Can you really see a schizophrenic on the street and feel disdain for them? No pity?

As Mr. Ebeneezer Scrooge said "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

Moreover, you'd be surprised how many non-vermin are involved in the drug trade. Maybe your doctor, or a TTC driver, or lawyer, or your children's teacher, wouldn't be able to go to work downtown due to being caught with a bit of hash in their house.


I was going to make the exact same post, but you did, and probably better.
 
However, the idea that people on parole or probation should not be downtown is ridiculous and wrong. Even people with criminal records have their rights as citizens, and I would much, much, rather live somewhere where this was true than have a place sterilized by a system such as the one you've proposed. Can you imagine the powers you'd have to give the police to enforce such a system? Terrifying. No, Mr. Beez, it is their right to be wherever they want, although not to do whatever they want.
That's certainly not the approach we take with sexual predators, especially those that attack children. In many cases their release from prison specifically includes geographic restrictions, such as not being permitted to be near schools or daycares, for example. The drug pushers travel downtown to sell their drugs, and thus being downtown is a requirement of their criminal behaviour, and thus I'm perfectly fine with the courts and police placing geographic restrictions upon such criminals.
 
That's certainly not the approach we take with sexual predators, especially those that attack children. In many cases their release from prison specifically includes geographic restrictions, such as not being permitted to be near schools or daycares, for example. The drug pushers travel downtown to sell their drugs, and thus being downtown is a requirement of their criminal behaviour, and thus I'm perfectly fine with the courts and police placing geographic restrictions upon such criminals.

Fair enough; although I'm glad it's not that way. There are too many people with drug offenses to make this practical. Punishing only repeat offenders would simply make them hire "runners" to do the job for them. Pedophiles are unlikely to do this. The analogy between drug users and pedophiles is not really apt in this case. They're criminals at entirely different levels, with different motives and causes.
I see where you're trying to go, but even if I did agree with your idea, I don't see it as being possible or practical to implement.

In other news, from
http://cabbagetownnews.blogspot.com/

Start planning now for our annual Community Clean-up day
9 am to 2 pm, Saturday, April 19th
If you’ve got old scrap or a pile of litter or garbage that’s a nuisance and you want to get rid of it, just pack it up and bring it to one of our drop-off sites (Amelia & Parliament, Carlton & Parliament, Spruce & Parliament and Ontario at Gerrard.) It’s free and it’s convenient. Watch for more publicity as the date gets closer.
 

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