Roncesvalles Reconstruction

[reaperexpress]

The problem with the bisected configuration is that the transit platform space becomes unavailable for other uses. I am also unconvinced it is any safer than the Roncesvalles design, since pedestrians must still cross a bike lane to reach the platform; and as we know, there will always be the odd transit rider, cyclist, and parking driver who will seem determined to prove any design unsafe. In the end, we have to rely on basic common sense, and I think the Roncesvalles design seems pretty straightforward (with the new sharrow markings), albeit unique.

Near the Film Buff and Cherry Bomb, the bumpouts have become nice little gathering places where people can sit and enjoy a coffee or ice cream. This would not be possible with a bisected platform that is exclusively for transit riders.

It's true that the bisected design is less space-efficient, but it is also more effective from a transportation perspective because they allow cyclists to pass stopped streetcars. This makes cycling faster and more comfortable, and would make it a more popular transportation option.

I think people overestimate the conflict between cyclists and pedestrians crossing to and from the platform. I experienced this design in the Netherlands and it's painfully obvious that pedestrians need to wait for a gap to cross. That sounds like a hassle for transit riders, but it really isn't because of how frequently gaps occur. Even incredibly impatient transit riders will wait a couple seconds.

That said, I agree that bump-outs were the best choice for Roncesvalles because it is quite narrow. As you pointed out, too much space would have been taken away from the sidewalk using the bisected design.

Ideally, the default design for streetcar stops would be the bisected one, with bump-outs substituted where there is insufficient space.

 

[Fred.S]

I bike along Roncy almost daily and rarely use the bumpouts (usually just to get around traffic if it's backed up, which is very rare). There's almost always a vehicle blocking one end or pedestrians standing on the platform. As I understand it, the design is so bikes don't get to close to the tracks. I always wondered whether they could put some rubber or spring-loaded device or something in the track-groove that would prevent tires from getting stuck in it but could be easily pushed down by streetcar wheel flanges (although personally I have no problem with the foot or so between the rail and the bump-out). With all the extra space, you could put larger shelters with more seating or planters or whatever. Could be a much nicer design.

 

[Armbruster]

I bike along Roncy almost daily and rarely use the bumpouts (usually just to get around traffic if it's backed up, which is very rare). There's almost always a vehicle blocking one end or pedestrians standing on the platform. As I understand it, the design is so bikes don't get to close to the tracks. I always wondered whether they could put some rubber or spring-loaded device or something in the track-groove that would prevent tires from getting stuck in it but could be easily pushed down by streetcar wheel flanges (although personally I have no problem with the foot or so between the rail and the bump-out). With all the extra space, you could put larger shelters with more seating or planters or whatever. Could be a much nicer design.

The material you are describing is called a "flange filler" and it looks like this:

Mainly, this stuff is used for cyclists crossing perpendicularly across tracks, and I am not sure if anyone has tested it for cyclists traveling parallel to the tracks. It would be great if such a material could somehow take the streetcar tracks out of the safety equation for downtown cyclists. I doubt this material would be a proper substitution for a proper, paved path, but it would greatly reduce the risks to cyclists.

It also occurs to me that such a material would make conditions more comfortable for motorists as well.

 

[vic]

This doesn't really help with the slipperiness of streetcar tracks, especially when wet. But it would be a step in the right direction if they could incorporate these flanges at least at intersections or where streetcars turn.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Checked out Roncesvalles, and the streetcars are now running on regular service on Roncesvalles. Unfortunately, because of construction on King Street West, streetcars continue to divert on Queen St. W. between Roncesvalles and Shaw.

There are some stops that do not have the bicycle ramps (IE. Fern Avenue). Could it be because of the crosswalk at Fern is causing some legal barrier?

 

[junctionist]

I've biked along Roncesvalles several times now to see how well the ramps work, and they work surprisingly well. They're clearly marked as being for bicycles so people waiting at stops stand back. My bike has thin tires and the transition isn't rough, at least for now. It feels quite normal to ride a bike on Roncesvalles even though the ramps are an unusual feature. The street is less congested for the time being, and it feels like a place not only to shop, but to socialize and spend leisure time. The way Jane Jacobs envisioned sidewalks as public spaces has been restored to a tangible degree.

It's nice to finally see pavers used for sidewalks as part of a streetscape improvement project somewhere in the city, especially beyond downtown, but it's essentially the bare minimum. The pavers don't have much colour, but they do look good in conjunction with a small amount of concrete for contrast in visual texture. The west sidewalks are pretty much all concrete; the pavers are mostly only in front of businesses on the east side. Even on the east side there's a strip of concrete between the buildings and the pavers, and there's always a section of concrete paving at intersections with any street. There are new planters for flowers along the sidewalks which look good, and thankfully, the BIA didn't go the Corso Italia route and install speakers for outdoor Muzak.

 

[vic]

I was walking up and down Roncesvalles on Saturday afternoon, and was surprised to see ZERO people standing on the bike ramps / streetcar platforms. I think with the pavement markings, people are understanding it much better now. I was also surprised to not see any of the ramps blocked by cars.

I think one of the biggest tests of this design will come in the winter, when access to the ramps and rideability around the ramps may be severely impacted by even just a little bit of snow. I'm being optimistic though...and with a bit of snow removal, this might turn out pretty well.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the New York Times (at this link):

A Low-Slung Piece Of Toronto Gains Casual-Hip Cachet

By MICHAEL KAMINER

IN the Roncesvalles Village area of Toronto, shop windows still trumpet “godziny otwarcia†— Polish for “opening hours.†But as young, creative types have snapped up homes, this west-end Polish enclave has morphed into a hub of local design and casual-hip dining. After a multiyear neighborhood reconstruction project that temporarily cut streetcar service and starved merchants, Roncesvalles Avenue — the area’s main artery — is thrumming again. Despite their big-city location, the street’s indie bookstores, quirky coffeehouses and smart boutiques feel more like small-town hangouts, with stroller-pushing locals popping in to chat up proprietors. Tree-lined and low-slung, with a blessed absence of the chain stores that have crept across Toronto, the rejuvenated “Roncey†now makes for one of the city’s most engaging strolls.

 

[Dan416]

I guess Roncesvalles has changed because all the Poles left for Mississauga/Brampton/Oakville.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Roncesvalles , with votes over 2200, is one of the Great Places in Canada. See this link.

In addition, Roncesvalles' bike lane was used as a model (but with curb separation) for the bicycle lanes on Sherbourne. See this link. Bus stops on Sherbourne will be similar to Roncesvalles' streetcar stops with the bike lane raising up to sidewalk level at all bus stops and buses stopping in vehicle travel lane.

 

[junctionist]

Roncesvalles , with votes over 2200, is one of the Great Places in Canada. See this link.

In addition, Roncesvalles' bike lane was used as a model (but with curb separation) for the bicycle lanes on Sherbourne. See this link. Bus stops on Sherbourne will be similar to Roncesvalles' streetcar stops with the bike lane raising up to sidewalk level at all bus stops and buses stopping in vehicle travel lane.

Thanks for mentioning Great Places in Canada. I stumbled across that website a couple of months ago when it was still inactive and wondered when it was going to be promoted. When people think of great places in Canada, they're too often just natural places. Yet Canada is the creation of Canadians, and urban spaces are what we create and what merits more celebration. Toronto has its share of the country's great places, and I hope that lots of Torontonians hear about it and take some time to reflect on what they're proud of and want to promote.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

I bring back this thread all the years later. From March to November 2019, Roncesvalles/Queen intercestion will be rebuilt, inculding the track, OCS, gates to and from Roncesvalles Carhouse, and bumpouts along the street. The Queensway ROW will be completely rebuilt between the section of Parkside and Roncesvalles. Of course, Queensway ROW was already rebuilt from Parkside and Humber Loop from January 2017-June 2018.

EDIT - Never mind, just talk about it in the Catch All TTC thread.

 

[DSC]

I bring back this thread all the years later. From March to November 2019, Roncesvalles/Queen intercestion will be rebuilt, inculding the track, OCS, gates to and from Roncesvalles Carhouse, and bumpouts along the street. The Queensway ROW will be completely rebuilt between the section of Parkside and Roncesvalles. Of course, Queensway ROW was already rebuilt from Parkside and Humber Loop from January 2017-June 2018.

The 2019 project (the King/Queen/Queensway/Roncesvalles intersection) is really a completely new/different project and is 'only' a rebuild (admittedly an important one.). This thread was to cover a total rebuild of Roncesvalles and a new kind of TTC line with bump-outs etc ; I question adding the 2019 work to it. It really might be best to leave all discussion of the 2019 project in the "TTC Other" thread where discussion has been up to now. Time for Mods to decide!

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

The 2019 project (the King/Queen/Queensway/Roncesvalles intersection) is really a completely new/different project and is 'only' a rebuild (admittedly an important one.). This thread was to cover a total rebuild of Roncesvalles and a new kind of TTC line with bump-outs etc ; I question adding the 2019 work to it. It really might be best to leave all discussion of the 2019 project in the "TTC Other" thread where discussion has been up to now. Time for Mods to decide!

Okay, I apologize for that. Didn't know where to post it!

 

[Leo_Chan]

Okay, I apologize for that. Didn't know where to post it!

General rule: Post in general thread if you can't find one more specific. Don't try to stretch the meaning of a random thread. If the discussing in the general thread gets too specific and intense, the mods may move the posts to a new thread.