AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Both - considering what and where they prioritize transit funding to. Parking garages at GO? CCTV systems? It's a certain demographic they are aiming for.
AoD
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SmartTrack (Proposed)
- Thread starter aquateam
- Start date
Both - considering what and where they prioritize transit funding to. Parking garages at GO? CCTV systems? It's a certain demographic they are aiming for.
AoD
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Transit not being the responsibility of the federal government isn't an absolute truth. There was a time where the federal government paid for a certain percentage of ALL TTC capital programs (I don't recall the exact percentage, but it was significant).
BurlOak
Senior Member
Big J or Little J
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Big J or Little J
Big J, Little J, U, RLS, RLU, RLL, RL, DRL .... all these acronyms for the exact same thing.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Quoted from that article:
- There is no distinct SmartTrack service, only GO trains and (maybe) a few new stations. There will be no “SmartTrack” branded fleet.
- If TTC fares will be offered on SmartTrack, this will really consist of giving people cheaper rides on service GO is already operating.
- If “Regional Fare Integration” means that TTC rapid transit (subway) fares rise and GO fares for short trips come down, then SmartTrack will be a cash grab from subway riders to cross-subsidize SmartTrack riders on GO trains.
- Demand models for SmartTrack indicate that very frequent service at TTC fares is required to attract substantial ridership, with 12 trains/hour (one every 5′) performing best in the model runs. The proposed service is considerably less frequent. “TTC fares” implies full transfer rights at no premium to and from the TTC network.
- The existence of frequent SmartTrack service and stations in Scarborough is an integral part of the plan to build the subway extension as a one-stop express route to the Town Centre.
- Part of the justification for keeping the Relief Line alignment to the north along Queen Street rather than King is to avoid competition with SmartTrack. However, there won’t be any SmartTrack service for it to compete with, only GO trains.
- Tax Increment Financing requires that SmartTrack contribute something to the uplift in property values that would not occur absent the new service. However, the “new” service will entirely be GO Transit’s, and it will occur whether anything called SmartTrack exists or not.
Tuck
Active Member
Thank God someone is talking sense.
SmartTrack isn't a thing anymore. It doesn't need to be a thing. On its own it was a poor idea. It's RER that matters. Add an extra station at the Unbeliever site and call it a victory for Tory, but let's stop bogging down the rest of the transit conversation as a way to justify smart track as it's own service.
SmartTrack isn't a thing anymore. It doesn't need to be a thing. On its own it was a poor idea. It's RER that matters. Add an extra station at the Unbeliever site and call it a victory for Tory, but let's stop bogging down the rest of the transit conversation as a way to justify smart track as it's own service.
To be honest, I'm glad SmartTrack existed, because it got people talking about a 3rd option compared to the traditional subway vs LRT debate. As a plan it was poorly executed, but as a general service pattern it was and remains a pretty good idea.
The provincial Liberals put RER into the transit mix for the GTHA in the provincial election, and Tory put RER into the transit mix in the municipal election. Before SmartTrack, RER was 'a Provincial thing', and wasn't really being considered as a potential solution for Toronto. Now the Toronto-centric RER service pattern is being seriously investigated.
As many of you know, I was an advocate for RER/GO REX/S-Bahnification well before it was seriously brought to the table in 2014, so I'm really glad that it's actually being considered, instead of being a "yeah whatever, now let's get back to talking about subways and LRTs" talking point.
The provincial Liberals put RER into the transit mix for the GTHA in the provincial election, and Tory put RER into the transit mix in the municipal election. Before SmartTrack, RER was 'a Provincial thing', and wasn't really being considered as a potential solution for Toronto. Now the Toronto-centric RER service pattern is being seriously investigated.
As many of you know, I was an advocate for RER/GO REX/S-Bahnification well before it was seriously brought to the table in 2014, so I'm really glad that it's actually being considered, instead of being a "yeah whatever, now let's get back to talking about subways and LRTs" talking point.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
bobbob911
Active Member
RER is only a "thing" if the pricing model makes sense as an integrated network with TTC. If the Smarttrack concept helped push that narrative it was useful. (I'm not optimistic though....)
1overcosc
Active Member
Call me crazy, but I actually think the Wynne Liberals will win another majority in 2018 allowing all of these transit plans to remain intact.
The main ingredients of Wynne's support base are progressives and millennials. Wynne's progressive credentials were damaged by the teachers strikes and the Hydro One fallout, which was the root cause of the decline in her approval rating from its mid-to-late 2014 honeymoon. Both those things are now behind her. Furthermore, thanks to the sudden boost the provincial economy is getting from the falling dollar/falling oil prices, there's suddenly no need for any real austerity measures anymore. We saw that in the 2016 budget with the spending freeze broken and hospitals given a funding boost, and with candy thrown to progressives like the student aid overhaul.
I expect the NDP to continue its decline to irrelevance, for the PCs to suffer from internal chaos over the competing forces of the base and those who want to moderate the party (we're already seeing a taste of this with the carbon tax file), and the Liberals to re-energize their appeal to progressives. Plus as the provincial economy continues to improve, and the Liberals head into the 2018 campaign with reduced unemployment rates and a balanced budget. All four factors will allow the Liberals to win another narrow majority.
The only thing I can see stopping this is if the PC Party actually succeeds in moderating itself while retaining its grassroots support among its largely rural base (critical to its funding, volunteer army, and GOTV efforts).
By 2018 Kathleen Wynne will be 65 years old, so if re-elected to another majority term she'll probably retire towards the end of it, around 2021 or so.
The main ingredients of Wynne's support base are progressives and millennials. Wynne's progressive credentials were damaged by the teachers strikes and the Hydro One fallout, which was the root cause of the decline in her approval rating from its mid-to-late 2014 honeymoon. Both those things are now behind her. Furthermore, thanks to the sudden boost the provincial economy is getting from the falling dollar/falling oil prices, there's suddenly no need for any real austerity measures anymore. We saw that in the 2016 budget with the spending freeze broken and hospitals given a funding boost, and with candy thrown to progressives like the student aid overhaul.
I expect the NDP to continue its decline to irrelevance, for the PCs to suffer from internal chaos over the competing forces of the base and those who want to moderate the party (we're already seeing a taste of this with the carbon tax file), and the Liberals to re-energize their appeal to progressives. Plus as the provincial economy continues to improve, and the Liberals head into the 2018 campaign with reduced unemployment rates and a balanced budget. All four factors will allow the Liberals to win another narrow majority.
The only thing I can see stopping this is if the PC Party actually succeeds in moderating itself while retaining its grassroots support among its largely rural base (critical to its funding, volunteer army, and GOTV efforts).
By 2018 Kathleen Wynne will be 65 years old, so if re-elected to another majority term she'll probably retire towards the end of it, around 2021 or so.
nhui06
Active Member
Yeah, Ontario is usually a Liberal stronghold, so it will take a lot to dethrone them. Notice the Liberals are doing all these unfavorable things like Cap and Trade tax and selling Hydro One right now. They won't doing this come 2017 and leading up to the election in 2018 - general voters have short term memory. What voters may see in 2018 is shovels in the ground for the transit projects, new hospitals etc and that will attract voters.
rbt
Senior Member
It's possible. Liberals as a whole are doing okay; Wynne specifically is the person who is bearing the brunt of public outrage. It'll be an interesting election; I expect a minority myself.
Right now, I'm glad Tory exists at the Municipal level to add a voice in favour of RER.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I just mentioned this in another thread. Liberals are tied with PCs, and the Liberals haven't even begun hammering Brown on social issues yet. When they do, it'll be game over for the PCs, unless they make a big ideological shift to the centre.
It also should be noted to that economic indicators are strong, going into the 2018 election. Unemployment is at the lowest level since the 90s, debt to GDP ratio is decreasing, the budget is well on it's way to being balanced. This'll make it very difficult for the PCs to say the Liberals are mismanaging the economy.
kEiThZ
Superstar
@gweed123
Exactly. I love Smart Track because it gets people talking about having a proper transit network. It's ridiculous how we see transit in Toronto. We see GO as exclusively reponsible for transporting 905ers using heavy rail (mostly) and we see subway as exclusively the purview of Torontonians (TYSSE being the small exception). This is not how you build and operate a proper transport network. Even guys like Steve Munro are so wedded to this paradigm that he can't see past it to a truly integrated regional network.
If all Smart Track does is force GO to offer fare integration to TTC riders, more stops in Toronto and more frequent service, I'll be happy and John Tory will have my vote again.
Exactly. I love Smart Track because it gets people talking about having a proper transit network. It's ridiculous how we see transit in Toronto. We see GO as exclusively reponsible for transporting 905ers using heavy rail (mostly) and we see subway as exclusively the purview of Torontonians (TYSSE being the small exception). This is not how you build and operate a proper transport network. Even guys like Steve Munro are so wedded to this paradigm that he can't see past it to a truly integrated regional network.
If all Smart Track does is force GO to offer fare integration to TTC riders, more stops in Toronto and more frequent service, I'll be happy and John Tory will have my vote again.