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Whose vision of transit in Toronto do you support?

Whose vision of transit in Toronto do you support?

  • Steve Munro's vision (basically Transit City plus subway expansion for DRL and Yonge only)

    Votes: 82 49.7%

  • Save Our Subways vision (expanding all subway lines plus DRL and Eglinton)

    Votes: 83 50.3%
  • Total voters
    165
Dan416

Dan416

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With all this talk of Steve Munro wanting to debate SOS, I figured it was time for a poll. It is almost important as a tool for the election and which vision politicians would work toward if they are elected.
 
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Hmmm, subway extensions into some of the lower density areas in the whole city, or an LRT network which serves most of the high-density nodes? One already has a huge amount of momentum behind it, and the other one sets us back a few years in studies and has no guarantee of funding...

Neither one is perfect, but I'm going to vote for option... A.
 
i dun wana sound mean, but option b would never be possible due to ontario's current econmic state. as much as i wanted subways to be expanded in all those major areas, i just dont think it will happen at all. i even wanted to expand the subway from steeles east to markham rd (once the finch subway extends to steeles that is), but i know it's impossible...
 
I vote for A mostly because Toronto needs to actually have some transit expansion. That said, I would trade EVERYTHING in TC for:

* Eglinton LRT as it is now, possibly extending to UTSC.
* DRL East preferably somewhere close to queen street going from University all the way up to Don Mills and Eglinton.

But again, we really don't have a choice, unless we want to wait another 10 years for something.
 
Definitely A.

Plan B seems to be just a re-hash of a older flawed subway expansion plan, and totally ignores Western Toronto, while advocating a subway to Mississauga, and relegating the rest of the city to bus lines with queue jump lanes.

Not viable at all.
 
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Option A has guaranteed funding, shovels in the ground, planning and studies either finished or nearly complete, the support of the City, Province, TTC and Metrolinx, and the promise of delivering tangible benefits within the next 5 years.

Option B is uncosted, unfunded, unassessed, unsupported by any level of government or transit agency, and wholly unable to be anything other than a pipe dream.

Since this is a choice between something and nothing, Option A wins every time.
 
It honestly took me about a minute to figure out which option to pick because I would love to see subways criss-crossing the city as much as anyone, I would even extend the Sheppard line westward to Rexdale, but really this is about choosing between something which has funding, is starting to get shovels in the ground, has TTC support, and will touch every part of Toronto; or a dream which will leave some parts of Toronto much as they are today with perhaps an extra Rocket route or two. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush so I chose A. Past governments have given us one station extensions from Wilson to Downview or Spadina streetcars after 30 years of planning. The time to build something is now, and the time to argue against Transit City was 3 years ago in 2007 when it was announced complete with a map.
 
It starts with Sheppard East for me. I'm sorry, but not completing a job that's been started just doesn't fly with me. I work in construction and around here, we get slapped for shit like that. It irks me like little else.

I'm sorry but if there's money to expand to Vaughan "City Centre" (or should that be: Vaughan City Big Box, Incomplete Plans, Fields, and Warehouse Centre?), there should be no shortage of money to finish something that's been started! For f**** sake!

I'm originally from Scarborough so.....SRT. WHY!?

I voted for Jane Pitfield last election based on one thing and one thing only....guess what that might be.

I'm not sure I want to live in a city that consistently strives to be mediocre. It just does something to your psyche. Why would the citizenry strive to better themselves when their collective manifestation doesn't bother?


That's option B for me, in case you couldn't figure out what I was blabbering about.
 
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I find it interesting that in every subway poll I ever created, subway won by a large margin over LRT, but in this poll it's split about 50-50, whereas you'd expect a similar advantage to subway. SOS's plan is really just the sum total of all the polls I conducted on this site over the years (Eglinton, SRT, Sheppard) so I admit I'm surprised. But it's only been a day. So we'll see.

Maybe the answer is: any particular subway expansion is affordable, but expanding the network isn't? I'm not sure. But I still think there are real savings to be had by having continual subway expansion rathe than the one-offs we've been doing recently.
 
The answer to your question is in EnviroTO's post. Perhaps when people voted on those other polls, Transit City was considered as much a pipe dream as any. Now we're seeing unprecedented progress and momentum which has never been seen in this city. It's like the goose that laid the golden eggs. If you get greedy and kill the goose, you end up with nothing.
 
kettal said:
The answer to your question is in EnviroTO's post. Perhaps when people voted on those other polls, Transit City was considered as much a pipe dream as any. Now we're seeing unprecedented progress and momentum which has never been seen in this city. It's like the goose that laid the golden eggs. If you get greedy and kill the goose, you end up with nothing.
Click to expand...

If anything I'd say the lack of progress on TC is what is disheartening people. To think that this city couldn't even handle something as basic as TC without budgets skyrocketing and the whole plan itself being in danger has given people zero confidence in the city and the TTC in particular.

Momentum? Are you sure you didn't mean inertia?
 
Three lines going from proposal to construction in under three years. I'd say that's pretty damn good.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I find it interesting that in every subway poll I ever created, subway won by a large margin over LRT, but in this poll it's split about 50-50, whereas you'd expect a similar advantage to subway. SOS's plan is really just the sum total of all the polls I conducted on this site over the years (Eglinton, SRT, Sheppard) so I admit I'm surprised. But it's only been a day. So we'll see.

Maybe the answer is: any particular subway expansion is affordable, but expanding the network isn't? I'm not sure. But I still think there are real savings to be had by having continual subway expansion rathe than the one-offs we've been doing recently.
Click to expand...
I think it's that people aren't seeing it project for project. They figure that TC's already set in motion, and that it's better to sit back and do nothing. I'm sure many have also forgotten that Move Toronto is cost-neutral with TC, and can remain so (or even dip below, depending on how well the projects are managed.) And the same kind of legislation that allowed TC to be born in less than two years could have the same done for subways, and this plan could be on with only a two or three year setback.

It's also possible that people are thinking short term gain vs. long term gain. Sure, some people will get served worse with MT than TC. But MT sets the golden paving stones for everyone to be served much, much better after the system continues to get expanded naturally like basically every other system in the world.
 
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