What do we need more of in Toronto?

[M2J]

Hello everyone,

I am currently working on a design proposal for a condo to be built on the waterfront by a local developer. After seeing a poll in the Toronto Star on May 16 asking: “Is it time to stop building condos on the waterfront?†with 85% of the votes going to yes, I decided to take a new direction with my proposal.

Frankly, I am apart of the 85% who feel its time to stop building condos; the last thing we need in Toronto is another condo. For this reason, I have decided to submit a proposal to not build a condo at all. It will be a plea to build something new and avoid the current trend of mindless condo development and instead construct a structure the city actually wants and needs.

So, Toronto – what do we need more of? What does this city lack? (Especially at the waterfront) What issues concern you most and what would you like done about them?

Thank you in advance for your participation,
- Mahan J.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I'm part of the 15% who believes condos are fine down by the waterfront (sans Harbour Square) but I'd encourage original, unique styles of buildings using quality materials. Most importantly ground level retail, community space, market place etc. are key to help tie the community together.

 

[ganjavih]

I think condos are fine on the north side of Queen's Quay but should not be allowed on the south side. The condos that work particularly well are the midrise condos around the area of the Music Garden. Unfortunately, it would have worked a lot better if there was retail in the area... coffee shops, bakeries, etc.

There is nothing wrong with condos going up in Toronto, it's the sign of a healthy city. Unfortunately, too many developments are done without much thought and are either ugly, cheap-looking or out of context for the neighbourhood, which is why I think many people have become anti-condo. In general, though, higher population densities, esp. with homeowners, can only be good for neighbourhoods.

 

[3Dementia]

M2J:

I'm confused. You have been contracted by a "local developer" to design a condo, and you plan to try and talk your client into building something else?!

Never heard of such a thing.... pretty sure a condo developer won't build and aquarium instead. Can you elaborate?

 

[Hipster Duck]

The only part of the Waterfront that feels like a lost opportunity is the small section between York and Yonge street where those ass-ugly Robert Campeau buildings were built directly onto the water in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

To the immediate west you have the Harbourfront Centre, HtO park and the Power Plant gallery. Nothing wrong there. Even further west is the Arthur Erickson and KPMB designed ziggurat midrises and the Music Garden - and these are real gems.

---

Yeah, I'm also confused as to your role and powers in influencing new development...

 

[Urban Shocker]

I'm naturally suspicious of hard-and-fast rules that would banish certain types of structures from certain locations because of their use. After all, the three 1980's Huang and Danczky condos are on the north side of Queens Quay and are pretty hideous, whereas the mixed use Terminal building south of the Quay has several floors of condos above the retail and offices that don't intrude on the landscape; and the design award-winning condo south of the Quay at Spadina, and the proposed Pier 27, are two other attractive examples. The determining factor, ultimately, is good design - a process which involves solving challenges presented by the site, not just cooking up pretty exteriors or sticking to a certain formula for what goes inside them.

 

[M2J]

Thanks for all your responses, you guys raise some great points. A large part of people disliking condos is because they are all poorly designed and all look alike.

M2J:

I'm confused. You have been contracted by a "local developer" to design a condo, and you plan to try and talk your client into building something else?!

Never heard of such a thing.... pretty sure a condo developer won't build and aquarium instead. Can you elaborate?

Sorry for the confusion. I have not been contracted by the developer.
This proposal is for a competition, in which the winning team/person will have their structure built.
The developer asked for a condo, but they seemed rather unsure of how to use the space. At the Q&A they seemed rather open to ideas and asked competitors for ways to use the lot.
I realize that submitting another design may automatically disqualify me from the competition, but I'm not doing this to win. Even if they just flip through my application, I hope they pick up on some ideas which will later influence them in constructing the condo.


However after some of the responses above, I have started to question whether the problem are condos themselves, or just the lack of innovative design.

 

[maestro]

where abouts it is on the waterfront is also important in determining the best use for the site - can't divulge the location?

 

[M2J]

the location in the queens quay area, a few blocks east of jarvis.

 

[junctionist]

Glass and titanium silo-like tower (you can draw inspiration from the abandoned one that stands east of the site), with free community gym at ground level. Add a music conservatory and a convenience store.

 

[Canuck]

Shouldn't the market decide what stores should be located in these projects?

People say "X" store would be perfect for this location... well ok, so either someone currently in that industry is missing a valuable business opportunity or you just found yourself a great venture.
This is not an impovished ghetto, one that would require government intervention in some capacity, but an area where the market should be left to play. [I'm talking about small scale operations to be found in condo bases, not bix-box stores].


All I ask is for something creative, fun, and one that leaves plenty of space and connectivity for those who wish to enjoy the waterfront.

I like Pier 21, though I think given its location (at Yonge/the Lake) perhaps the spot might be better served with something of a higher use. However, I'm not against condos on the water so long as the work and are appropriate in the location.

 

[3Dementia]

What does the East Bayfront Precinct Plan say about "your" site re: future zoning, density etc.? Also, what is the timing? Would this project be one of the first in East Bayfront (besides the Corus Operahouse)?

I can think of some great ideas but actual location is paramount.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

The only part of the Waterfront that feels like a lost opportunity is the small section between York and Yonge street where those ass-ugly Robert Campeau buildings were built directly onto the water in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Exactly. They're not built right against the lake, but still way too close. Fortunately there is some park land (albeit very slim at some points) and boardwalk for public access and continuity along the lakeside. It's the size of the buildings which is most unfortunate. Unattractive too. I guess on a positive note if you have a home in there your good as gold. I've been into three units at Harbour Square over the years and they have nice size rooms and great views.

Going forward I really agree that development is best kept on the north side of Queens Quay but that said I'm really liking Pier 27 phase 1. I think it's profile, design and public access is what is selling me on this project.

 

[EnviroTO]

the location in the queens quay area, a few blocks east of jarvis.

If you don't want a public backlash you should build something that fits with the East Bayfront Precinct Plan as far as building envelope goes. A condo building with the all weather walkway that is proposed and space for retail on the ground level should be good for the area. For bonus points there could be space for offices on the second and third floors since the city would really like to create a mixed use community. I would recommend you read through the precinct plan at www.towaterfront.ca from start to finish before you go too far. If developers stick with the plan framework it will be one of the best neighborhoods in the city for its creation of parks, squares, and a pedestrian friendly environment. I am really hoping to see only brick, cement, and clear glass on the podiums of most of these buildings and mostly glass on the towers.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

An aquarium would be nice.