Toronto Woodbine Station Improvements | ?m | 1s

[nfitz]

Earlier this month the TTC report about the planned easier access and second exit at Woodbine Station came out:

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...upplementary_Reports/Easier_Access_Second.pdf

It seems the timeframe to start construction is the second half of 2011.

There are signs posted today in Woodbine station for an Open House on this at the Danforth/Coxwell library, starting at 5:30 pm on Tuesday June 29th. I can't remember if it's until 7:30 or 8:30 ... and I can't find the announcement on-line.

The design itself seems innocuous enough, simply requiring the acquisition of a single property on corner of Woodbine and Strathmore.

I'm curious why there isn't any mention of new finishes, etc - Woodbine is certainly one of the Danforth stations in poorer shape. And I'm also curious why such a prominently located exit doesn't seem to also allow for entrance ... it would cut down on a lot of J-walking across Woodbine if it allowed for entrance as well.

 

[nfitz]

TTC now has a website for this project - http://www3.ttc.ca/Service_Advisori...ne_Station_Easier_Access_and_Second_Exit1.jsp

The meeting was tonight. The presentation isn't on-line yet. As I live near this station, I couldn't miss it!

This doesn't include Station Modernization. Councillor Davis was there and she said that program had been deferred until 2015, and the very next station on the list was Woodbine, so presumably, it would proceed in 2015.

This came up, because the current Woodbine station has construction from 2011-2013. The way things go, 2014 is probably a better guess. So yes, the TTC is planning on finishing the current project, then the next year, starting construction again.

The design generally seemed quite reasonable. Nothing much changes in the current station ... but it probably doesn't need to, and the second exit is well-situated, and will be well used (more so than the Pape second exit, which really should have been on the west side of Pape).

The only other issue I heard anyone complain about (and I also said the same) was that the New Exit doesn't allow for entrances. When I asked why, they said it would cost more, and because the entrances are wider than the exits, and the distance between the door and gates had to be further, that it wouldn't fit on the property. I think making it an entrance is a good idea, because it would cut down on the many jay-walkers across a busy 4-lane street in rush hour. It seems there were many similar comments, and Councillor Davis seemed to think similar. It seems unfortunate that even if there isn't money for the actual entrance, that they at least select the property and design the building, so that it can be added in the future without a big rebuild and more expropriation

I heard later at the Greenwood/Donlands Second Exit meeting (also tonight) that Councillor Davis has a motion up for the next TTC council relating to Woodbine station ... so perhaps she will push for one or both of second entrance, and station modernization at the same time.

The only other thing that jumped out at me, is that the elevator for the eastbound platform (and station entrance) is right where the buses currently park. The new design only shows room for 2 buses, however any regular user knows that there are frequently two 91 buses in at the same time (because it's really 3 routes - 91, 91C, and 91F) plus a 92. With a 91 running every 8 minutes, and a 92 running up to every 6.75 minutes, then 2 platforms just isn't going to work.

Staff seemed surprised by the 3 buses comment - perhaps a problem is that those designing the station, aren't that familiar with a station; seems there should be more communication with operations, and residents, a bit earlier in the design stage, to observe how a station works, etc. I heard similar comments at the Greenwood/Donlands meeting, that staff weren't as familiar with the stations as they should be.

 

[Northern Light]

Good Report Nfitz,

In our previous discussion I noted the delay in the modernization program, which at the time threw me, that they wanted to do the second exit and elevator separately. I hold to that position, it would be absurd to put people though 2 projects over 5 years; it must all be done at once, I hope plans are amended accordingly.

I wholeheartedly second your suggestion on the second exit also being an entrance.

I hadn't noted the observation about the bus routes before, and I'm glad you did; though sadly, I'm persuaded the TTC will actually respond your useful notation.

I wonder how it might addressed though, myself, even though I would support a 3rd bus platform....is there enough land?

 

[nfitz]

I wonder how it might addressed though, myself, even though I would support a 3rd bus platform....is there enough land?

Probably ... I just don't think staff realised it was an issue. This is exactly the reason for these meetings ... hopefully they can slide the elevator a bit, or reconfigure the bus bay a bit to solve the issue, without adding to the construction cost. There is effectively 3 platforms there currently ... but not after they stick the elevator shaft in the way. Of all the issues, this is the one that could likely be fixed without having to get extra funding.

 

[GTS]

I always hoped for a larger sheltered waiting area that could serve both bus routes at this station. I don't use this station much anymore, my wife and I moved last year, but I still hope all of the TTC's stations get upgraded to make our commutes a little more comfortable and easier.

 

[CDL.TO]

I read the article and it wasn't really clear. Where will the second entrance be located?

 

[sterdeus]

I read the article and it wasn't really clear. Where will the second entrance be located?

The second entrance was an idea by nfitz to amend to the plan to have the second exit as dual purpose entrance/exit. By those means, the second proposed exit will be on the north-west corner of Woodbine and Strathmore.

I'm new to the area and live close to the Woodbine station. At this point, I don't have an opinion since I have not taken transit enough. But I do fear the short term with construction imposing delays, re-routed traffic, noise, pollution, etc.

 

[CDL.TO]

The second entrance was an idea by nfitz to amend to the plan to have the second exit as dual purpose entrance/exit. By those means, the second proposed exit will be on the north-west corner of Woodbine and Strathmore.

I'm new to the area and live close to the Woodbine station. At this point, I don't have an opinion since I have not taken transit enough. But I do fear the short term with construction imposing delays, re-routed traffic, noise, pollution, etc.

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant "second exit", not second entrance. Thanks for the location... it's unfortunate that it won't be further away from the existing structure.

 

[nfitz]

But I do fear the short term with construction imposing delays, re-routed traffic, noise, pollution, etc.

I don't think there will be much in terms of delays and traffic interference. It shouldn't impact Woodbine at all. There'd be a small construction area on the north side of Strathmore, north of the existing entrance, while they do the elevator shaft. But I don't think it would have to go into the road much more than a parked car. On Strathmore, west of Woodbine, they'd obviously have to close it for a few months, while they dig the new walkway from the new exit to the eastbound tracks. But it's a quiet street, and presumably the residents on this piece of Strathmore would simply drive around the block; no more impact than if Strathmore was a one-way street westbound. I can't see why there would be any delays; the Pape reconstruction is much more major, and I use that almost daily, and haven't observed any delays.

Thanks for the location... it's unfortunate that it won't be further away from the existing structure.

Unfortunate perhaps ... but given that Woodbine seems to cross middle the station box, then I'd think any other exit would simply dump people on Strathmore ... which seems to be a very unpopular idea, given what I saw at the Greenwood meeting. This design has very little impact on neighbouring properties, and is on a major road. It would get used fairly well. Though the impetus for the design has nothing to do with providing capacity, and is merely about fire safety. That it is actually quite functional is a bonus that some of the second exits didn't achieve.

I can't see anything else that would work as well, looking at the drawings in the June 2nd report. Have you got any suggestions?

 

[CDL.TO]

I can't see anything else that would work as well, looking at the drawings in the June 2nd report. Have you got any suggestions?

That's a good reference document. No suggestions from me. It would have been nice if the station was aligned in such a way that the second entrance could be built on Woodmount or on Cedarvale. But, alas, it is not, so those are not options.

It's strange how so many of the Bloor line stations have second entrances (Bathurst, Ossington, Lansdowne, Keele, High Park, Royal York), but not even one of the Danforth line stations do.

 

[adma]

It's strange how so many of the Bloor line stations have second entrances (Bathurst, Ossington, Lansdowne, Keele, High Park, Royal York), but not even one of the Danforth line stations do.

Compounded by Spadina having had a second entrance *added*...

 

[Fresh Start]

^^ The Danforth stations are too close together that's why. If second stops were added it'd be a 300-400 metre gap between station access points from Broadview all the way to Coxwell. Every Taste of the Danforth I marvel at how easy it is to walk from one stop location to the next all within one half hour and consider the locals fortunate to have such great coverage. I really wish the TTC would consider having the second exit to Greenwood Stn face outwards onto Danforth proper and leave those elderly folk up on Strathmore alone. Does anyone know how shallow the subway cut is at that point? If there's enough space for a mezzanine level, they should just extend an underground walkway to a block south.

 

[sterdeus]

I agree, some of the second exits/entrances are in inconvenient places. Looking at the Greenwood or Coxwell plans, they're placing the exit between houses? Nice way to ruin the neighbourhood.

As others have mentioned, it would make sense to have the exit facing Danforth, not on Strathmore. With the Woodbine stop, it would make sense to place the second exit on Woodbine, whereby, people south of the station would use the new one and people north would use the existing exit.

 

[nfitz]

I agree, some of the second exits/entrances are in inconvenient places. Looking at the Greenwood or Coxwell plans, they're placing the exit between houses? Nice way to ruin the neighbourhood.

I haven't seen the Coxwell plans. Where are they? I'm surprised, I'd have thought there was an obvious place to put the Coxwell second exit ... on Coxwell.

 

[Fresh Start]

I haven't seen the Coxwell plans. Where are they? I'm surprised, I'd have thought there was an obvious place to put the Coxwell second exit ... on Coxwell.

Or onto that vacant lot comprising 1648-1668 Danforth Ave. for Woodington Ave residents. Just extend an underground walkway south from Strathmore and there'd be set.