Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The courts certainly didn't. The court action was on whether an Injunction could proceed at that time. There was absolutely nothing in the court's ruling on the ability to undertake an action, just the terms of the probation stated in the contract until doing so.

And now Metrolinx has done so.

Addendum: For anyone wishing to understand the Court's ruling and why, here's a good place to start without getting too technical on the legal proceedings: (My first Google hit, it'll do)

By Ben SpurrTransportation Reporter
Wed., April 19, 2017 (8 months ago)

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...linx-from-cancelling-bombardier-contract.html

Guess what happened?

All I see is what Metrolinx should have done with them the first place insted of ordering more LRVs then they needed and making ridicules claims that only delayed other projects.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

This is old news (2016), but I was looking at the proposed bus route changes and thought that it was odd that we are maintaining two bus routes on Mt Pleasant, both very infrequent, with the 103 also headed to Eglinton Station in one of the more congested sections of the corridor.

I understand that some people may not enjoy a one-stop transfer from Mt Pleasant to Eglinton Stations, but it makes more sense to just through-route the line with the 74 bus and send it to St. Clair.

Even smarter, would be to make this bus route a more frequent service (every 10 minutes at least) and send it downtown via Jarvis. This would take people where they want to go, would be an excellent alternative to shuttle buses on Yonge on days the subway is down, and if it takes just a couple hundred of passengers off of the Yonge Line at rush hour, it would be worth it (considering crippling congestion on Line 1).

I included the proposed changes here for others to take a peak at if they haven't already.

 

[WillTo]

This is old news (2016), but I was looking at the proposed bus route changes and thought that it was odd that we are maintaining two bus routes on Mt Pleasant, both very infrequent, with the 103 also headed to Eglinton Station in one of the more congested sections of the corridor.

I understand that some people may not enjoy a one-stop transfer from Mt Pleasant to Eglinton Stations, but it makes more sense to just through-route the line with the 74 bus and send it to St. Clair.

Even smarter, would be to make this bus route a more frequent service (every 10 minutes at least) and send it downtown via Jarvis. This would take people where they want to go, would be an excellent alternative to shuttle buses on Yonge on days the subway is down, and if it takes just a couple hundred of passengers off of the Yonge Line at rush hour, it would be worth it (considering crippling congestion on Line 1).

Agreed on both fronts.

The 74 is currently going from St. Clair Stn to Don Cliffe loop due to construction and it is working quite well. It is also useful for avoiding the subway closures north of St. Clair and has got to be more economical than running 2 lightly used routes.

I sometimes find myself heading to the eastern part of downtown and have wondered why I am schlepping it west to get to the subway, only to go east again to get to, say, Jarvis or Sherbourne.

A route downtown along Mt. Pleasant/Jarvis would be lovely, but I fear it might be a victim of its own success. There might be too many people getting off at Eglinton to transfer southbound on Mt. Pleasant.

The TTC does provide a premium route and it is very useful but expensive. I knew someone that lived around Davisville/Mt. Pleasant and worked near Jarvis/Bloor and it just made too much sense to get the special sticker on her Metropass but it was bloody expensive for such a short ride.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I sometimes find myself heading to the eastern part of downtown and have wondered why I am schlepping it west to get to the subway, only to go east again to get to, say, Jarvis or Sherbourne.

You described a common travel pattern of mine very well there.

I personally would use such a bus line to get to the Yonge/Dundas area, as well as to a few friends that have recently moved into St Lawrence and Regent Park areas. I think on many days, it would even be quicker or at least time competitive to the subway.

A route downtown along Mt. Pleasant/Jarvis would be lovely, but I fear it might be a victim of its own success. There might be too many people getting off at Eglinton to transfer southbound on Mt. Pleasant.

It is possible scenario, one only needs to look at the 6 Bay bus, which clocks in at a fairly decent 10,300 daily riders. If this route had even 1/3 of the 6 Bay ridership, it would be a success in my opinion as taking any number of people off the Yonge line at rush hour would be needed. I mean, we have spent the past couple years praising how wonderful it is that the Spadina Subway Extension is projected to take 1,300 pphd off the Yonge line, which this route could theoretically probably accomplish as well.

I even think that as the Yonge Line gets prohibitively more crowded, more people will shift to taking such a Mt. Pleasant route as an alternative.

Unless your fears are that the future Mt. Pleasant Station on Eglinton is not planned as a significant bus terminal, which is also probably true.

The TTC does provide a premium route and it is very useful but expensive. I knew someone that lived around Davisville/Mt. Pleasant and worked near Jarvis/Bloor and it just made too much sense to get the special sticker on her Metropass but it was bloody expensive for such a short ride.

If I lived right at Mt. Pleasant, I would consider that express route service too. The issue is that anyone who has to walk >5 minutes to the bus stop is playing the odds considering the express route only makes three trips a morning. Not to mention that it does not run on the weekends, the time of the week such a service would be most useful considering the weekly subway closures on weekends. Plus, during the winter time any significant amount of waiting for an incredibly infrequent service is frustrating.

Long story short, we have a direct corridor to downtown via Mt. Pleasant and Jarvis, and the current service(s) on that corridor has been designed to be as prohibitive as possible for anyone to use. Goes to the wrong place, is split into two routes, very infrequent, and the express service is one of the few TTC routes in the whole city that has an additional premium price.

Currently, the 74 Mt Pleasant and 103 Mt Pleasant North have 1,200 and 1,600 daily riders respectively, and the 141 Mt Pleasant Express has a mere 160 daily riders. I think there is significant latent demand on the corridor (and more people switching from car to transit with the opening of the Eglinton Crosstown) and the present low ridership of these three bus lines are because these bus routes were never really an option for getting anywhere in the first place.

 

[Ozman]

Here's something I posted almost two years ago regarding my thoughts on the bus routes and Line 5. This was just after the TTC report (which included the map posted above) was released.

Let's not forget that this is just a preliminary report re: bus routes. It says itself that it will be finalized starting in 2019. I too think they should merge the Avenue Road and Mount Pleasant routes but I guess they don't want to make the good burgers of North Toronto have to transfer twice to get to the Yonge subway (and ride only one stop on Eglinton line 5).

I wonder if the Eglinton 34 and Yonge 97 (not shown on map below) will go through the bus terminal at Eglinton station and similarly will the Don Mills 25 (not shown on map below) go through the terminal at Science Centre station or just stop on the street outside the pedestrian entrances like the 34 and 51 will at Laird station.

As far as the 162 I imagine it will be tweaked to drop down Don Mills Road from Barber Greene and loop through Science Centre station bus terminal. Also they should tweak the South Leaside 88B and have it come north on Laird from McRae and go east on Eglinton, then south on Brentcliffe to Vanderhoof (reverse in inbound 88A direction) so that it can stop on street both ways at Laird station at the same stops as the Leslie (via Leaside) 51.

View attachment 67429

 

[steveintoronto]

we have spent the past couple years praising how wonderful it is that the Spadina Subway Extension is projected to take 1,300 pphd off the Yonge line, which this route could theoretically probably accomplish as well.

Even if this route alone doesn't offer that amount of relief, adding in other north-south parallels to Yonge would in total.

Long story short, we have a direct corridor to downtown via Mt. Pleasant and Jarvis, and the current service(s) on that corridor has been designed to be as prohibitive as possible for anyone to use.

The only reason I can think of that this isn't done is the 'objection' from the neighbourhoods it runs through.

 

[Sandpit]

I think they may be the same people that are convicted that the TYSSE was supposed to be open for the PAAM games despite the TTC saying otherwise.

It became apparent that this was impossible fairly early on, but had the (provincial) Liberals won a majority in 2011, the next election would have been in fall 2015 (possibly in November instead of October to avoid conflicting with the federal election). I could see a push to open the line early in time for the Pan Am Games and/or the provincial election.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Agreed on both fronts.

The 74 is currently going from St. Clair Stn to Don Cliffe loop due to construction and it is working quite well. It is also useful for avoiding the subway closures north of St. Clair and has got to be more economical than running 2 lightly used routes.

I sometimes find myself heading to the eastern part of downtown and have wondered why I am schlepping it west to get to the subway, only to go east again to get to, say, Jarvis or Sherbourne.

A route downtown along Mt. Pleasant/Jarvis would be lovely, but I fear it might be a victim of its own success. There might be too many people getting off at Eglinton to transfer southbound on Mt. Pleasant.

The TTC does provide a premium route and it is very useful but expensive. I knew someone that lived around Davisville/Mt. Pleasant and worked near Jarvis/Bloor and it just made too much sense to get the special sticker on her Metropass but it was bloody expensive for such a short ride.

There was a "Mount Pleasant Coach" that operated from from 1941-1954. It ended due to the opening of the Yonge Street Subway. From link.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That didn't operate on the Clifton Road extension though, it matches existing services on Mount Pleasant.

 

[smallspy]

This is old news (2016), but I was looking at the proposed bus route changes and thought that it was odd that we are maintaining two bus routes on Mt Pleasant, both very infrequent, with the 103 also headed to Eglinton Station in one of the more congested sections of the corridor.

The passenger loading - and thus headways - on the two regions of Mt Pleasant are very different. That's why until they combined the services for the construction of the Crosstown they were separate.

I understand that some people may not enjoy a one-stop transfer from Mt Pleasant to Eglinton Stations, but it makes more sense to just through-route the line with the 74 bus and send it to St. Clair.

That may be the case after the Crosstown opens. A lot of the ridership on both routes is destined to and from the subway, however. I suspect that at the least the TTC will take a wait-and-see approach to see if that actually changes.

Even smarter, would be to make this bus route a more frequent service (every 10 minutes at least) and send it downtown via Jarvis. This would take people where they want to go, would be an excellent alternative to shuttle buses on Yonge on days the subway is down, and if it takes just a couple hundred of passengers off of the Yonge Line at rush hour, it would be worth it (considering crippling congestion on Line 1).

They do that at rush hour already. And the demand is so low that they only way that they can justify the route is to make it a Premium Express.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

They do that at rush hour already. And the demand is so low that they only way that they can justify the route is to make it a Premium Express.

I've addressed that in the other post:

If I lived right at Mt. Pleasant, I would consider that express route service too. The issue is that anyone who has to walk >5 minutes to the bus stop is playing the odds considering the express route only makes three trips a morning. Not to mention that it does not run on the weekends, the time of the week such a service would be most useful considering the weekly subway closures on weekends. Plus, during the winter time any significant amount of waiting for an incredibly infrequent service is frustrating.

Long story short, we have a direct corridor to downtown via Mt. Pleasant and Jarvis, and the current service(s) on that corridor has been designed to be as prohibitive as possible for anyone to use. Goes to the wrong place, is split into two routes, very infrequent, and the express service is one of the few TTC routes in the whole city that has an additional premium price.

Currently, the 74 Mt Pleasant and 103 Mt Pleasant North have 1,200 and 1,600 daily riders respectively, and the 141 Mt Pleasant Express has a mere 160 daily riders. I think there is significant latent demand on the corridor (and more people switching from car to transit with the opening of the Eglinton Crosstown) and the present low ridership of these three bus lines are because these bus routes were never really an option for getting anywhere in the first place.

I really think it is difficult to judge a route as unviable on the fact that nobody uses a premium cost service that runs 3 times a morning.

Provide a truly viable option, and then observe if it attracts significant ridership.

 

[dowlingm]

I remain befuddled by TTC's planning process where the 14x routes must remain limited premium service irrespective of developments along their routes whereas other non-premium express services can pop up elsewhere in the city. Mount Pleasant and Jarvis are relatively high speed corridors and if there can't be bike lanes on Jarvis then there should be transit access. But that is perhaps a matter for another thread.

 

[smallspy]

I've addressed that in the other post:



I really think it is difficult to judge a route as unviable on the fact that nobody uses a premium cost service that runs 3 times a morning.

Provide a truly viable option, and then observe if it attracts significant ridership.

Except that you seem to have forgotten the history of the route.

It (and the matching Avenue Rd. service) was started in the late 1980s as a means of addressing the overcrowding that was then happening on the Yonge Line at rush hours. They weren't originally an extra fare route - that was only done when funding started to get cut in 1992.

And yes, while both routes are still running today, the TTC gnashes its teeth every couple of years about whether they are actually a worthwhile investment to maintain in the network. The general consensus is a pretty resounding "no", but enough people complain about the potential demise that the TTC keeps putting it off.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[smallspy]

Duplicate post. My apologies.

 

[smallspy]

Duplicate post. My apologies.