News   Jul 26, 2024
Maple House Wins Sole Canadian ULI 2024 Americas Awards for Excellence
 870     0 
News   Jul 26, 2024
Three Towers up to 55 Storeys Proposed near Sheppard West Station
 2.3K     2 
News   Jul 26, 2024
A Peek Inside The Canada Malting Silos & Bathurst Quay Revitalization
 2K     3 

Sorbara (400 Wellington) vs. Freed (anything) - quality

kondoz

kondoz

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
144
Reaction score
0
So I'm considering buying between a freed project in king west or the sorbara 400 wellington. Does anyone have any experience with either developer in terms of finishings and communication with the buyer?

Sorbara seems priced much better than Freed but I don't want to spend less if the quality suffers. One thing I noticed was Freed seems to give 9' plus ceiling height while Sorbara is only 9' and can be less with bulkheads. Freed also states what appliances their units come with which are usually high end. Sorbara doesn't mention any brand at all.

I have taken a look at sixtybathurst (sorbara) and the finishings seemed alright. Only issue was a lot of wasted spaces in the layouts I saw. But that can be seen from the floorplan.

I have not taken a look at any completed projects by Freed but hope to see 10 Morrison soon.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
 
Ka1

Have a look at post # 44 by Rosto in the thread Thompson Hotel & 550 Wellington Street under "Projects & Construction" for Freed quality
 
Freedville is cool but I think 400 WW has a great location on a quieter street, and has even more potential for massive change (for the better) when the Toyota dealership and Globe and Mail sites redevelop. With the money you save at 400 WW you can always sell crap appliances on craigslist and buy better quality ones elsewhere. In 2013, SS appliances will be so passé it won't be funny, so go with cheap white appliances....

And the real bonus of buying Sorbara is you're buying Sorbara Quality women--sisters Ginger and Martina Sorbara (related to the family development company) are attractive women desperately in need of even nicer clothes.:) Your charitable contribution of around $50,000 to the Sorbara sisters will be greatly appreciated.:D
 
Last edited:
Kondoz

A few things that might help:

1. I don't think quality is a big differentiator between Sorbara and Freed. Both OK. I have been in suites of both at occupancy.
2. Concentrate on the layout and other factors about the building.
3. Sorbara tends to sell to those who actually want to live in their unit and avoids the investor riff raff. Freed sells to investors first so lots of renters.
4. Freed tried to download a huge levy onto the purchasers of 10 Morrison when they registered. It was a very low ball move by Freed that was eventually sorted out after freaking everyone out on closing.
5. Freed's buildings and marketing of those buildings tends to be more wow than Sorbara. Look past the hype.
6. For Sorbara's 400 Wellington project, nearly 40 suites have been sold to date without much marketing (big push to start in January). I am told by Sorbara that 16 of these suites have been bought by returning customers from Sixty Lofts. Good karma.
7. 400 Wellington starts excavation in two weeks. If you are thinking Fashion House, it will be quite awhile before anything happens. Our decor appointment is going to be in the spring.
8. 400 Wellington will be a better investment psf in 5 years. Wellington Street is being transformed by many +million dollar suites in several new buildings that are uber high end.
 
Thanks 400Wellingtonguy. Did you buy a unit there? Which one? Or are you with Sorbara?

400WellingtonGuy said:
A few things that might help:

1. I don't think quality is a big differentiator between Sorbara and Freed. Both OK. I have been in suites of both at occupancy.
Click to expand...

OK. Why do you think Freed specifically names their appliances especially high end ones. I think Fashion House has Miele. I was surpised 400Wellington didn't.

400WellingtonGuy said:
2. Concentrate on the layout and other factors about the building.
Click to expand...

I agree with this point. The one thing about Wellington I didn't like was 9foot ceilings. I thought the higher floors or even the penthouse would have 10 foot ones.

400WellingtonGuy said:
3. Sorbara tends to sell to those who actually want to live in their unit and avoids the investor riff raff. Freed sells to investors first so lots of renters.
Click to expand...

I can see this being true. Freed seems to sell to investors and then drastically increases the price/sqft. I think the units at 550 wellington are almost at $700/sqft.

400WellingtonGuy said:
4. Freed tried to download a huge levy onto the purchasers of 10 Morrison when they registered. It was a very low ball move by Freed that was eventually sorted out after freaking everyone out on closing.
5. Freed's buildings and marketing of those buildings tends to be more wow than Sorbara. Look past the hype.
6. For Sorbara's 400 Wellington project, nearly 40 suites have been sold to date without much marketing (big push to start in January). I am told by Sorbara that 16 of these suites have been bought by returning customers from Sixty Lofts. Good karma.
7. 400 Wellington starts excavation in two weeks. If you are thinking Fashion House, it will be quite awhile before anything happens. Our decor appointment is going to be in the spring.
8. 400 Wellington will be a better investment psf in 5 years. Wellington Street is being transformed by many +million dollar suites in several new buildings that are uber high end.
Click to expand...

400Wellington price right now is around $500/sqft? What price did sixty lofts go from introduction to now?
 
kondoz said:
Thanks 400Wellingtonguy. Did you buy a unit there? Which one? Or are you with Sorbara?
Click to expand...

I bought a unit on an upper floor. No, I am not related at all with Sorbara.


OK. Why do you think Freed specifically names their appliances especially high end ones. I think Fashion House has Miele. I was surpised 400Wellington didn't.
Click to expand...

After many condo purchases, I am not that excited about appliances because they usually aren't as good as you hope they will be. For example, does Fashion House purchase of sale agreements (not the brochures that mean nothing) actually say Miele model #'s for the appliances? I would be surprised if they did. Miele also has their drawbacks with repair costs and usually smaller size.

I know that at Sorbara's SixtyLofts project, I saw a substantial and reasonably priced upgrade list for many items which was quite impressive. Better to keep the initial price low and then let the buyers decide what they want to spend on appliances, either from the developer or later purchase.

400Wellington price right now is around $500/sqft? What price did sixty lofts go from introduction to now?
Click to expand...

I don't recall exactly, but likely in the $350-380 psf range. Others may chime in here to remember.
 
400 Wellington has very few amenities - no rooftop patio, no party room, not even a gym! The only thing they have is a guest suite; and "executive concierge"! The condo fee is $0.50 psf, which is higher than other buildings in the area (ranging from $0.40 - $0.45). Also, $40 per month for parking spot's maintenance, and $10 for locker's.

But again, you can never know what the condo fees of this building or other buildings can go up to after the first year of occupancy. There's no cap for that.

Prices of some units at 400 Wellington go up about $4K very recently. And they probably will increase the prices again at the break-ground/relaunch event on Jan 15.

The builder does not allow assignments so there should be more owners, and less flippers/investors, which will also increase the value of the building, I think.
 
Last edited:
I have experience with both builders. Here's my opinions:

Sorbara has done well with location choices. In addition, 90 Sumach and Broadview lofts were successful because the original buildings were already great shells for conversion. It was great to see that Sixty loft turned out as nicely as it did since this was a new build.
All three completed projects were successful for purchasers because they were all priced very well vs. comparables during pre-construction. However, with 400 Wellington, I don't see the prices being that much better than the rest of the comparable pre-construction projects - just slightly better.
Many floorplans in their past projects are suspect. Sorry, I just don't get them. But 400 Wellington floorplans seem to have improved.
If you want great standards, don't look to Sorbara. Also, my most important point and speaking as a past-purchaser - the customer service is awful. I mean really, really bad. The head of customer service (I will not name names) provided probably the worst experiences I can imagine. I'm sure you won't have to dig deep to hear of similar experiences. I actually had $ down on a unit in 400 Wellington and recinded my deal - mostly due to the soured experience I had in my past purchase.

In general, I found dealing with Freed a positive experience. This comes from helping a few friends through their purchases, upgrade selections, and move-ins. If you want to spend money on upgrades, Freed staff are more than glad to help you unload your pockets. However, I found upgrades prices quite high vs. comparable builders. But really, it's up to you to decide when to stop writing the cheques.
Floorplans are hit and miss. This may have alot to do with the fact that his buildings aren't cookie-cutter and not having all the same footprint on each floor - I understand this. But still, they can be improved. Common areas are well done.
My main knock on Freedville is that they sell each project as a new, original design but by locating all these developments in the same city block, Freed has actually become the norm (in that area).

To summarize, if the same unit were available in both a pre-construction Sorbara and Freed development at generally the same price and location, I would choose Freed.
 
kondoz - if occupancy timeframe is important to you - i would definitley stay away from Freed. By the time 650 is built and occupied it will be about 5 years since the launch. Sixty Lofts was completed much quicker than any Freed building.
 
aguduser said:
400 Wellington has very few amenities - no rooftop patio, no party room, not even a gym! The only thing they have is a guest suite; and "executive concierge"! The condo fee is $0.50 psf, which is higher than other buildings in the area (ranging from $0.40 - $0.45). Also, $40 per month for parking spot's maintenance, and $10 for locker's.

But again, you can never know what the condo fees of this building or other buildings can go up to after the first year of occupancy. There's no cap for that.

Prices of some units at 400 Wellington go up about $4K very recently. And they probably will increase the prices again at the break-ground/relaunch event on Jan 15.

The builder does not allow assignments so there should be more owners, and less flippers/investors, which will also increase the value of the building, I think.
Click to expand...

Where did you get information that 400 Wellington has a "guest suite". The only common element is an owner's meeting room which is exactly what I like for a building this size and intimate.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top