Should gas stoves be banned?

[Jonny5]

A complete ban on the use of gas stoves appears unlikely, though it is being discussed in some government circles, and some US cities (San Francisco) have already banned adding gas stoves to new build homes. While there are climate change implications, revelations of recent tests show gas stoves appear to cause levels of dangerous indoor pollution in homes that accumulate to a point they cause harm to your health, especially children. This is compounded as homes become more "sealed" where there are no drafts of fresh air to the outside present.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/business/gas-stove-ban-federal-agency/index.html

Those reports from CNN piggy-back on this CBC investigation which found that even brand new gas stoves leak out gas when turned off, and that the older the stove gets, the leaks grow exponentially to a point entire rooms of a house can have dangerous levels of gasses in them (also dogs and cats since the gasses are much heavier than nitrogen they will drift to the floor, depending on the airflow in the home).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/gas-stoves-methane-1.6331496

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/gas-stoves-air-pollution-1.6394514

All of this begs the question, can the manufacturing process be improved on these stoves, but also maybe it is a moot point as induction stoves appear to be the wave of the future, and gas stoves may go the way of the incandescent lightbulb.

 

[Towered]

Perhaps they should be. I've personally never been comfortable with them.

 

[smably]

I hope gas stoves will be something our grandchildren look back on with horror and disbelief. We used to burn gas in our kitchens? And we didn't even mandate that houses have range hoods? And even when people had range hoods, they usually didn't use them because they were too noisy?

I'm reminded of this iconic ad:

 

[lenaitch]

Perhaps residentially - I have no experience with them, but commercially would be a big problem. I understand serious chefs and bakers, even residentially, prefer it for heat control and distribution. The concept of banning something without some kind of grandfathering has knock on effects. Many older houses that were originally built for gas don't have electrical capacity installed and to do so can be costly. There are all sorts of housing and building conditions that are no longer allowed but still quite legal.

 

[afransen]

 

[lenaitch]

Pick you side on the climate change issue but I have little time for claiming that a legal industry that advertises, promotes and defends their product is an unholy cartel or engaged in evil lobbying just because you don't agree with it. Somebody who claims a Masters degree should know better.

 

[DSC]

Biden not in favor of ban on gas stoves, White House says​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/11/politics/biden-gas-stoves/index.html

 

[afransen]

Pick you side on the climate change issue but I have little time for claiming that a legal industry that advertises, promotes and defends their product is an unholy cartel or engaged in evil lobbying just because you don't agree with it. Somebody who claims a Masters degree should know better.

Ban on gas stoves is probably less motivated by climate change concerns than indoor air quality/safety. Though as the video I posted alludes to, the natural gas industry has used gas stoves as the thin edge of the wedge to ensure that there is infrastructure to deliver gas to residential neighbourhoods.

 

[lenaitch]

Ban on gas stoves is probably less motivated by climate change concerns than indoor air quality/safety. Though as the video I posted alludes to, the natural gas industry has used gas stoves as the thin edge of the wedge to ensure that there is infrastructure to deliver gas to residential neighbourhoods.

I'd have to be convinced. The penetration of a natural gas network outside of urban areas is pretty minimal (granted, that increasingly represents a significant percentage of the Canadian population) and relies heavily on commercial/industrial customers. The infrastructure costs are significant. We lived in one place that only got gas if a large commercial customer came onboard; otherwise they wouldn't run the lines just for the number of potential residential customers.

The biggest driver is heating. Just off the top of my head I don't think I know anyone with a gas stove. We have lived in a few houses with gas service and not one had or was even plumbed for gas in the kitchen. I'm agnostic but the missus will have nothing to do with an open flame. If cooking has been the goal of the gas cartel to pull the wool over the eyes of the public, it seems to have been an abject failure.

 

[afransen]

I'd have to be convinced. The penetration of a natural gas network outside of urban areas is pretty minimal (granted, that increasingly represents a significant percentage of the Canadian population) and relies heavily on commercial/industrial customers. The infrastructure costs are significant. We lived in one place that only got gas if a large commercial customer came onboard; otherwise they wouldn't run the lines just for the number of potential residential customers.

The biggest driver is heating. Just off the top of my head I don't think I know anyone with a gas stove. We have lived in a few houses with gas service and not one had or was even plumbed for gas in the kitchen. I'm agnostic but the missus will have nothing to do with an open flame. If cooking has been the goal of the gas cartel to pull the wool over the eyes of the public, it seems to have been an abject failure.

For those communities not on natural gas grids and reliant on propane or heating oil for fossil fuel heat, I would think a lot of them should be taking a hard look at air source heat pumps/minisplits. They aren't the best performers under -20C, but you could retain a fossil fuel system for the coldest days, and do the bulk of the heating with the heat pump during the day/shoulder seasons.

 

[gabe]

And we didn't even mandate that houses have range hoods? And even when people had range hoods, they usually didn't use them because they were too noisy?

That's insane. Working in restaurant kitchens over the years, rule number one was.... turn on all range hoods and let them run a few minutes before firing up the gas stoves/ovens/grills. And we scrubbed the hoods and washed the filters after every shift. Prevents fires, and attracting pests.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In Europe, gas stoves used to be the norm for the walk-up apartments they have. However, the direction seems to be towards replacing them with electric induction stove-tops, with convection ovens.

From link.

A major difference between a gas and induction stove-top is that induction is significantly more efficient than gas - food being cooked with induction will receive 90% of the heat generated, as opposed to only 40-55% for gas. This keeps your kitchen much cooler and more comfortable while you prepare meals. Induction cooking also decreases risk of burns and accidental fires, as there is no open flame and the cookware itself is the only heat source.

While electric is certainly more energy-efficient than gas, induction is still the clear winner for efficiency. Stovetop or cooktop electric cooking allows only 65-70% of heat to reach food as opposed to induction's 90%. This results in your kitchen staying cooler with induction than it does with electric cooking. While risk of fire is lower with electric than with gas, the risk is lower still with induction. Since the pan itself is the only heat source in induction cooking, your risk of kitchen burns is also greatly decreased.

Europe will also be able to wean off the natural gas supplies coming in from Russia. Most of Europe is turning towards wind and solar powered electrical generation as well.

 

[gabe]

Perhaps residentially - I have no experience with them, but commercially would be a big problem. I understand serious chefs and bakers, even residentially, prefer it for heat control and distribution. The concept of banning something without some kind of grandfathering has knock on effects. Many older houses that were originally built for gas don't have electrical capacity installed and to do so can be costly. There are all sorts of housing and building conditions that are no longer allowed but still quite legal.

Working in a kitchen with a gas stove and coming home to an electric stove, is like working with high speed internet and coming home to dial-up. Gas stoves are so much better to cook with and are built like tanks, they last for ever. My parents gas stove has been working 20 plus years. I got a new electric stove a couple years ago, the last one i had only lasted 6 years, the repair bill would have been almost as much as a new stove. I thought about getting an Induction stove, they are better than eltrictic and a lot safer than gas, but they are expensive and requires induction-capable pots/pans. Most of my pots and pans won't work on a induction cook top, so i went with electric. I use my propane barbecue with side burners year round too. So if i need a hot heat for grilling or sauteing, i will use that.

 

[lenaitch]

In Europe, gas stoves used to be the norm for the walk-up apartments they have. However, the direction seems to be towards replacing them with electric induction stove-tops, with convection ovens.

From link.




Europe will also be able to wean off the natural gas supplies coming in from Russia. Most of Europe is turning towards wind and solar powered electrical generation as well.

And some re-thinking their turn-away from nuclear (12% of EU energy in 2020). Ramping up renewable will be a long road - it's about 17.5% for the EU.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Perhaps they should be. I've personally never been comfortable with them.

That’s no reason for government to tell us what we can cook with. Imagine if that was a determinant of government policy.. If I want to cook with gas, noxious fumes and all, myob. If this is a climate change thing, then the millions of gas furnaces in Canadian homes is the bigger issue than the occasional house with a gas cooker.