Richmond & Adelaide Streets

[androiduk]

A few years ago, Mayor Miller mentioned something about reverting Richmond & Adelaide back to 2 way streets. I recently emailed him to see what was happening on this and below is the reply I received. Will let you know if I get more updates.

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Thank you for your email, the Mayor appreciates the time you have taken to express your concerns.

The future of Richmond and Adelaide is being analyzed. However, it is linked to several other environmental assessments including the Gardiner takedown and the less high profile study of an east-west bike lane connection through the core that was authorized by Council last year.

By way of this email I have taken the liberty of forwarding your concerns to Gary Welsh, General Manager Transportation Services for information and consideration.

Thank you for writing and sharing your concerns. Should you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact this office again.

 

[Dichotomy]

Now there is a step in the right direction: let's f#$K up the only 2 E-W streets downtown that actually move.

 

[Whoaccio]

I don't see the upside in making those street two way. If anything, I would suggest we look at making King & Queen one way. It is nice for pedestrians because you only have to look one way before jay walking. I imagine it is easier to synchronize lights as well, improving vehicle flow.

 

[Northern Light]

Sigh, Dichotomy strikes again

Whereever good ideas lurk, thoughtful and progressive, ideas that will improve the world, be sure that alongside Doug Holiday, Denzil Minnan-Wong, Dichotomy will be there standing ready to pounce on them, so a less perfect world can be preserved, for reasons unknown.

Yeesh.

Richmond and Adelaide do not function well. They are nearly completely bereft of street retail, are among the most unfriendly streets to pedestrians or cyclists, have no TTC service, and are nothing more than surrogate supplementary expressways.

Now if you're a fan of smog, pollution, degenerated streetscapes, low levels of tourism, urban blight, higher crime and reduced quality of life, then there is nothing wrong with the current configuration.

Elsewise there is something very wrong with it.

I'm being a bit extreme in my language, but let me point out that virtually all major cities are moving away from major, arterial, 1-way streets, and we need not look far to find a local example in Hamilton which is set to discard its downtown 1-way street system (and not a moment too soon, as it has been a contributing factor to that downtown's desolation.)

Discontinuing the 1-way Richmond Adelaide system has plenty of merit.

That is not to say, of course that it will not impede traffic. It will.

Before anyone accuses of me of being extreme on this point, I am a car owner, live just outside the core (the former East York) and have had my license and made use of it for 15+ years.

However, I don't believe it is socially desirable to accommodate commuters at the expense of residents or the environment.

It is necessary to accommodate vehicular traffic in some measure to handle certain commutes, deliveries, some tourism etc.

But large-scale accommodation of the car, to the detriment of quality public space is almost always economically disadvantageous to a community, in addition to the environmental consequences.

(some glorious historic buildings were lost to the hideous Richmond/Adelaide/Eastern DVP interchange.)

Moving Richmond and Adelaide to 2-way, bike laned, wide-sidewalked roads will boost assessment, improve the appearance of the community, reduce smog, and spur new and improved retail.

I would say this, that the change I support MUST be accompanied by significant transit improvements and the tolling of the DVP/Gardiner and 400-series highways.

Otherwise it would lead to a traffic nightmare.

Once full-day service is in place to Richmond Hill and Stouffville, 1/2 hourly off-peak on GO Lakeshore, the various Union Station Improvements and the ATC program for the Y-U-S subway, there should be an opportunity to make this happen.

 

[androiduk]

Great post Northern Light, I'm with ya 100%. BTW, Oshawa is another city that took the one way express, hopefully they're watching what Hamilton does.

 

[nfitz]

The plan to take down that section of Gardiner seems to assume that most of the traffic will be diverted to Richmond/Adelaide, with an upgrade of the ramps from them to the DVP.

Surely we are more likely to see things to increase capacity of these roads (no parking, etc.) rather than be convered to 2-way.

I don't think you can knock down the Gardiner AND reduce capacity on the two roads taking the overflow.

 

[Hydrogen]

Richmond and Adelaide do not function well. They are nearly completely bereft of street retail, are among the most unfriendly streets to pedestrians or cyclists, have no TTC service, and are nothing more than surrogate supplementary expressways.

Addressing just Adelaide, due to the nature of the buildings and the history of the area, there is not a ton of opportunity to insert lots of street retail. That being said, there is some there. If you want more, all you have to do is go a block south to King or north to Queen. Tons of retail there.

The buildings on Adelaide Street West are hardly a blight; many are quite handsome and are occupied with businesses, and there is a considerable amount of development happening in the area as well. As for pedestrian unfriendliness, I walk and bike that stretch all the time. It is no more friendly or unfriendly than many other streets in the city.

So somehow, traffic is supposed to be better if both Adelaide and Richmond are two-way roads, but things are bad if they each remain one way. Interesting. Also interesting: that traffic moves is considered bad.

 

[drum118]

Both streets have streetcar track and could be push to Spadina and Parliament to deal with the King/Queen issue.

To put service back on both streets will require TTC to rebuild the track as they are due for replacement now.

This would be a good time to move the rail into the curb lane and remove some on street parking.

Outside of peak, both roads are used about 50%.

If we want to make Toronto more livable, then reduce the roads to 2 lanes of traffic, LRT and a bike lane.

If anyone looks at the traffic that is reduce to 2 lanes at Bay St due to construction of the BA and Trump projects, traffic is not a real problem at peak. Adding an extra lane for LRT is a non issue.

 

[confusion]

It's great to hear that they are even studying a East-West bike route through the core. I'm sure that is all it will ever be is just a study, but it makes me think for a second that perhaps Toronto does have a friendly future for pedestrians and low speed vehicles.

 

[lordmandeep]

well Comparing Queen street and Richmond and Adelaide is not fair considering in former British towns and cities Queen Street and King Street are the 2nd and 3rd most important streets after Main street which was Yonge Street in Toronto.

 

[Dilla]

This would be a good time to move the rail into the curb lane and remove some on street parking.

If we want to make Toronto more livable, then reduce the roads to 2 lanes of traffic, LRT and a bike lane.

Please let there be some decision makers reading this. Due to drop offs and pick ups, these streets are 2 usable lanes most of the time, anyway.

 

[UserNameToronto]

Richmond and Adelaide do not function well. They are nearly completely bereft of street retail, are among the most unfriendly streets to pedestrians or cyclists, have no TTC service, and are nothing more than surrogate supplementary expressways.

Now if you're a fan of smog, pollution, degenerated streetscapes, low levels of tourism, urban blight, higher crime and reduced quality of life, then there is nothing wrong with the current configuration.

I agree 100%. I think blight is a strong word, but the eastern reaches of both streets could use a little bit more love. Some of the architecture is spectacular.

(some glorious historic buildings were lost to the hideous Richmond/Adelaide/Eastern DVP interchange.)

This is my hood, and I wish I knew more about what happened to it in the 1950s-60s. Some streets, such as the continuation of Sumach St. south of the overpass, are completely wacky (map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=....654626,-79.358057&spn=0.002422,0.004399&z=18 )

Much ink has been spilled about the almost-razing of Trefann Court, but I've has a tough time finding info on the actual razing of Corktown for the DVP overpasses. Anyone have a good source?

 

[Chuck]

I'm being a bit extreme in my language, but let me point out that virtually all major cities are moving away from major, arterial, 1-way streets, and we need not look far to find a local example in Hamilton which is set to discard its downtown 1-way street system (and not a moment too soon, as it has been a contributing factor to that downtown's desolation.)

Oh, get real.

A random image search on google turned up this picture of an avenue in New York City:

New York City is not only the most pedestrian friendly city in North America, but it also contains nothing but one way streets. Furthermore, avenues are usually 5-7 lanes wide, as seen above.

The next picture is of St. Catharine St. in Montreal. Notice anything?

The reason why Adelaide and Richmond are dead has nothing to do with the way that traffic flows, and is only because they have for over a century been the back alleys to King and Queen Sts. They never contained commercial or residential land uses, and were devoid of life not only when they had 2 way traffic, but before cars even existed. Restoring them has little if anything to do with traffic flow, and everything to do with opening up the ground floor of the warehouses that line them to street oriented land uses. Go there on a Friday night, and Richmond has so many pedestrians that cops have to direct traffic.

Toronto needs more one way streets. They are much easier to cross for pedestrians, allow for curbside parking and deliveries without interrupting traffic flow, and make traffic signal coordination simpler. All of the major streets downtown should contain one way traffic.

 

[taal]

Completely agree ...

The streets really do have some fine architecture with only more coming. In terms of retail there is some in spurts but really only at major intersections with other streets.

I do a agree that I think they are underused from a car point of view i.e. if making them 2 way helps out any then go ahead.

But really you can't expect every street to be full of life ... go to NYC and you'll see that first hand.

 

[GregWTravels]

I always felt that Richmond and Adelaide would make a nice way to implement street car ROW for King and Queen without trying to take lanes off of King and Queen.

I would take one curb lane on Richmond and Adelaide and run the street cars in the opposite direction to the on-coming traffic. Transit customers would board off the sidewalk with no crossing traffic.

As only street cars would be travelling in that direction, there isn't the problem of cars turning in front of the street cars (like on St. Clair or Spadina, where street cars are forced to wait for advanced left turns). Cars turning left would see on-coming cars, and wait for it to pass, just like turning left across opposing traffic on a regular 2-way street.

Then you could have street cars on King and Queen entering downtown head up or down to Richmond and Adelaide to make it through the core.