News   Nov 18, 2024
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Monster home, townhouses in Brampton, neighbours not amused

I don't see a huge issue with people living in one house all together should they choose that (or in the case of most people who would do that, they simply have no other options), but a basement apartment done illegally is a very dangerous thing, and that I definitely would be concerned about.

This house in the article above looks like a hideous beast in addition to being a sizeable one. How on Earth did it receive approvals?
 
Pic for reference:

monster_house.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg


If it's true that the owner only had a permit to renovate and not to re-build then this house is clearly non-conforming. I think we need more facts and figures on this one. What was actually specified? What is the maximum allowable size of the property? Is this going to be a legal multiplex or a simply a large family home which may or may not house multiple families?
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...me_stuns_its_bungalowdwelling_neighbours.html

Maybe it's time for Brampton to deal with this sort of thing, plus the illegal basement apartments, multiple families or large extended families living in one house.

the house intended as a home for himself, two brothers, their families and their parents.

You could conceivably have over twenty people living in this place. This is more like an apartment building than a house. Probably not much the city of Brampton can do about multiple families living under one roof. I guess this is the new norm for the city of Brampton. Still a terrible thing for the residents that have lived for over 30 years in the neighborhood to witness.
 
You could conceivably have over twenty people living in this place. This is more like an apartment building than a house. Probably not much the city of Brampton can do about multiple families living under one roof. I guess this is the new norm for the city of Brampton. Still a terrible thing for the residents that have lived for over 30 years in the neighborhood to witness.

A very interesting little story that could be anywhere in the GTA. Me thinks the greatest sin was building this monster house in a modest, 30-35 year old neighbourhood when there's at least a few places in Brampton with much larger houses and lot sizes (around Huttonville, Castlemore, or L-section Bramalea Woods). This is at the corner of Centre and Hinchley Wood (location is not mentioned in media). This may even be Brampton's first zero-lot replacement monster house, which replaced a 35 year old split level home.

The original house was demolished illegally without a permit, as the permits were given for an expansion to the existing dwelling. There's lots the City can do, and has done, by denying building permits. Of course Louie the Torch could also show up one night and solve the problem too.
 
Brampton has some serious issues with their zoning laws. There general residential zoning allows for any residential home in the city to be turned into a group home without public consultation. These group homes operate as charities and buy up homes in various areas (some million dollar areas) and collect government grants and monthly government benefits for how many people they can pack in. One reason I moved from Brampton. I have been to council meetings on this topic and some members of council declare conflicts as they sit on the boards of these charities.
 
Seems like we're going the way of Paris, with the old City of Toronto populated by mostly those of European-origin, and with the suburbs populated with those of Asian and African origin. As for Brampton, I suppose it's not often referred to as Bramladesh without merit.

The idea that you'd intentionally want to live in one giant house with your extended family is completely foreign to me, but to someone from Africa or Asia they may see my ideal living arrangement (that of get a job, leave home as soon as possible, buy own place, start a new family, and see my extended family a few times a year for holidays, etc...) as completely strange.
 
Seems like we're going the way of Paris, with the old City of Toronto populated by mostly those of European-origin, and with the suburbs populated with those of Asian and African origin. As for Brampton, I suppose it's not often referred to as Bramladesh without merit.

It is often referred as such out of pure ignorance. The "nickname" comes from the ignorance of some looking at the number of brown skinned south asian people in town (which is a significant group but still under 40% of the population) and assuming that all brown skinned people are from the same place and throwing a "cute" nickname around it.

Having lived in Brampton for 41 of my 51 years what I can tell you is that it is, and was, a city of first generation of immigrants. In the 50's, 60's and very early 70's the bulk of that first gen. immigration were Brits, Italians and Portugese. In the mid 70's up to the end of the 20th century the wave of immigration fueling the city's growth was primarily south asian.....but within that group there are Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankans and people from Africa and the Carribean who happen to be of Indian decent. It is, though, so much simpler to just group those people into a single entity and name the place Bramladesh (and I can assure you, that name is never used without a negative tinge as if, somehow, that wave of immigration is somehow less worthy of being here).

It even discards the fact that since the south asian wave of immigration started about 40 years ago, a very large number of the brown skinned/south asian looking people that live in Brampton are 2nd or (even) 3rd generation that were born right here in town and, even if they did not before, have every right to refer to themselves as, get this, "Canadian".

One of the biggest issues in this city is an underlying racial tension which, sadly and frankly, is largely eminating from the white/euro folks in town. I can't tell you how often I bump into people I have not seen since high school (or earlier) and they tell me they now live in Georgetown or Caledon (and wonder why I don't) because "it is more like the Bramalea/Brampton that they grew up in"....and the oozing of codespeak is easy to spot.

Take a minute to read any of the stories in the local paper about this home or any other discussion of the mult-families that live together and it does not take long for someone to tie the issue to the south asian community.......if you try to move the discussion away from race you are unsuccessful....no one wants to here talk of the 3 generation portugese family that moved out the house next door to be replaced by the 3 generation indian family. If the Portugese family is doing it they are just showing respect for family values and tradition but those indian folk are just ripping off the tax system and shifting a burden to the rest of us.

Sorry to pull out your quote and get on a soap box......but the anti-south asian sentiment that is sometimes seen here just drives me nuts.....and often just gets used as an "excuse" for some of the city's legitimate issues.
The first story in the local paper on this house actually saw someone tying this story to a recent trip by city officials to generate investment from India (the line was along the theme of "tear it down, charge them the cost and add to it the cost of the Mayor's trip to India"). I am no geneologist, but this fella's name did not sound to Indian to me. More Arabic/North African to me....but what do I know.

Just from walking around and living here I sense that we have actually moved into another wave of immigration and i get the sense that the fastest growing language in town is Spanish as a large number of South Amercian (Chilean, Argentinian and Urugayan mostly) immigrants are finding affordable and decent housing in Brampton.
 
TOareaFan, the sad part is that Toronto is a bastion of tolerance from an international perspective. We need to be careful how we integrate different building types into the existing physical and usage fabric but I have no problem conceptually with the idea of multiple families or multi-generations in the same household. It seems to me just as likely that such arrangements are more healthy and socially stable than the "normal" nuclear family arrangement as described here. I find this is becoming more common even among people of anglo-british heritage if only for economic reasons.
 
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TOareaFan- thanks, interesting perspective from someone who lives there.

We know that the suburban plan is not going to work in the future, and is already breaking down in many places, so let them build whatever they want, maybe it will be an improvement on what the town "planners" have really loused up. using rules we KNOW cause problems to protect xenophobic attitudes is just dumb.
 
Then again, it takes two to tango. Like, skin colour and lifestyle might be one thing; but as per this thread, built form is another, more palpably "civic sphere" thing. And even if I were a stranger in a strange land, I'd seek to pay at least some respect to the genius loci, to comprehend what I'm buying/getting into rather than just barging ahead obtusely.

It seems that in cases like this, it isn't just a matter of "outsiders", but those who bought into the "new world" myth of Canada as (compared, perhaps, to their home spheres) a culture-free, value-free tabula rasa where one can and should do whatever one wants without fear of reprisal. And those who *do* object are, in their eyes, misguided because, well, it isn't like we're dealing w/the centuries-old stuff of the Old World here. Y'know, we're just "redneck hillbillies", as Kahn on King Of The Hill might say. (It's an attitude not unlike the hubris displayed by UT's various banned kkgg/balenciaga cases.)

Of course, such bad-apple cases aren't a universal norm--in reality, whether it be Bram(ladesh)pton or Scarberia, all this Cold War suburbia (the single-family residential parts, at least) looks and seems (notwithstanding a few McRebuilds, or more blended-family/basement-apartment vehicles in driveways and on the street) basically the idyllic same as always, only the faces have changed. In the end, their sense of civics isn't *that* unlike their Anglo- and Euro-stock precursors--it's just that cases like this, much like gang shootings, are what make it to the front pages.

I can't tell you how often I bump into people I have not seen since high school (or earlier) and they tell me they now live in Georgetown or Caledon (and wonder why I don't) because "it is more like the Bramalea/Brampton that they grew up in"....and the oozing of codespeak is easy to spot.

Yet then there are those who moved the *other* direction (i.e. to inner-city Toronto) for roughly similar reasons--only they're not so prone to "codespeak", perhaps because the codespeakers (and the culture that produced them) are at least as much a reason for their move as what displaced them. (And as far as "what displaced them" goes: look, it's natural to feel alienated and out of place and even "pushed out" when your childhood nabe demos change around you. Such is flux. But it may be argued, of course, that the codespeakers--much like the Fords--are as much an insult to what they're upholding as, well, the subject of this thread. Like, if you *really* want to know where the "redneck hillbilly" stereotype comes from...)
 
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intervention:

Yes and no. Regulations themselves are derived from certain values - and history is replete with examples of planning policies with overt or covert agendas. That said, I would be hesitant to call it "racist" per se.

AoD
 
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Er, I think the issue here is not race but compliance with regulation.

I agree to some extent. I'm more inclined to call racism on The Real Jerk/condo fight than this, and it never crossed my mind. I lived in Brampton for nearly 25 years - and yes there is some resentment and a bit of tension towards new immigrants, but at most, that might be a secondary issue.

But the existing house was demolished illegally, and permits were granted for a substantial extension to the existing house that could have had plenty of room for extended family. The new house is entirely out of scale in this area, more so than the monster EIFS and fake stone clad houses that are replacing bungalows across North York. There are lots of lots in Brampton more suited for this structure.
 
It is often referred as such out of pure ignorance. The "nickname" comes from the ignorance of some looking at the number of brown skinned south asian people in town (which is a significant group but still under 40% of the population) and assuming that all brown skinned people are from the same place and throwing a "cute" nickname around it.

Having lived in Brampton for 41 of my 51 years what I can tell you is that it is, and was, a city of first generation of immigrants. In the 50's, 60's and very early 70's the bulk of that first gen. immigration were Brits, Italians and Portugese. In the mid 70's up to the end of the 20th century the wave of immigration fueling the city's growth was primarily south asian.....but within that group there are Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankans and people from Africa and the Carribean who happen to be of Indian decent. It is, though, so much simpler to just group those people into a single entity and name the place Bramladesh (and I can assure you, that name is never used without a negative tinge as if, somehow, that wave of immigration is somehow less worthy of being here).

It even discards the fact that since the south asian wave of immigration started about 40 years ago, a very large number of the brown skinned/south asian looking people that live in Brampton are 2nd or (even) 3rd generation that were born right here in town and, even if they did not before, have every right to refer to themselves as, get this, "Canadian".

One of the biggest issues in this city is an underlying racial tension which, sadly and frankly, is largely eminating from the white/euro folks in town. I can't tell you how often I bump into people I have not seen since high school (or earlier) and they tell me they now live in Georgetown or Caledon (and wonder why I don't) because "it is more like the Bramalea/Brampton that they grew up in"....and the oozing of codespeak is easy to spot.

Take a minute to read any of the stories in the local paper about this home or any other discussion of the mult-families that live together and it does not take long for someone to tie the issue to the south asian community.......if you try to move the discussion away from race you are unsuccessful....no one wants to here talk of the 3 generation portugese family that moved out the house next door to be replaced by the 3 generation indian family. If the Portugese family is doing it they are just showing respect for family values and tradition but those indian folk are just ripping off the tax system and shifting a burden to the rest of us.

Thank you for writing what I was going to. Couldn't have said it better myself, especially the bold part (which I have noticed as well, particularly in the last ten years).
 

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