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Toronto Eglinton Line 5 Crosstown LRT

I think that part of the problem is that people view wayfinding as a be-all, end-all - one single piece must do everything. That's a great way to overload it and make it incomprehensible. There's no reason why there can't be a more simplified approach is used, with different pieces of wayfinding doing different - and appropriate - things.

Dan

I'm even more cynical - the Great GTA Wayfinding Pogrom is the result of ML recruiting too many people with ivory tower mentalities (and insufficient practical experience. Talking at a system level is not always a substitute for knowing how things actually work.

(As a specific example, some of the wayfinding at track level in Union Station is neither lighted nor kept clean.... putting a new sign up in perfect Metrolinx font is pointless if the font is white-on-black and allowed to collect grime and soot from diesel exhaust and erected in a dim shadowed recess in the roof. The truly excellent transit professional would engage a janitor and an electrician, not a graphic designer or a head office signage wonk)

Add to that the opportunity for the ML bureaucracy to drive this kind of practice into other peoples' turf, thereby empire building.....certainly some properties may be set in their ways, but wayfinding is not the place to correct that.

- Paul
 
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Today they were adding & painting white benches to the crosstown surface stops. I saw this taking place at the Warden & Eglinton stop.
 
Today they were adding & painting white benches to the crosstown surface stops. I saw this taking place at the Warden & Eglinton stop.
whats the point... they will all get rusty by jan and theyll have to do it again anyways before a single ass has sat on it.... FAIL.
 
I think the point is that the line won't be commissioned until all the work is done.
Yea but you don't do these final works yet until you are actually close to opening. By the time they do the final inspection next summer it will be rusty and flagged as a difficiency. That will push the date back again.

Mark my words, guarantee next spring there will be pics of these already needing repair before the line opens
 
Is it though?
Yes.
It seems to me that humans are pretty adaptable and can figure things out quite easily if given the chance. So long as we have a reasonably consistent method of telling people where to find it, why do they need more information than that?

The current bus stop works well because it's easily visible from a distance, and easily identifies where the vehicle will stop. It does not identify what kind of vehicle stops there, that part is kind of irrelevant.

The Crosstown pylons are easily visible from a distance, and due to their locations by the entry doors, also allow people to easily find out where to access the system. They don't need to identify what kind of vehicle stops there because it doesn't need to - there is other signage elsewhere (and nearby, and in better locations) for that.

I think that part of the problem is that people view wayfinding as a be-all, end-all - one single piece must do everything. That's a great way to overload it and make it incomprehensible. There's no reason why there can't be a more simplified approach is used, with different pieces of wayfinding doing different - and appropriate - things.

Dan
Point being that people shouldn't have to be adaptable or have puzzles they need to figure out. It should be easy and intuitive for people who aren't familiar with the system. A clear and consistent sign that tells people that it's a rapid transit station is the most basic of useful information, which is why most cities use a simple M or something similar. Our way of using a T for some rapid transit lines (but also bus stops and GO train stations) and a TTC logo for other rapid transit lines (but also bus and streetcar stops) is needlessly unclear.
 
Yea but you don't do these final works yet until you are actually close to opening. By the time they do the final inspection next summer it will be rusty and flagged as a difficiency. That will push the date back again.

Mark my words, guarantee next spring there will be pics of these already needing repair before the line opens
According to CTS Crosstown was 98% complete by May this year.
 
I apologize as I'm sure this was already discussed, but It's my understanding that every stop, even the ones at-grade, have platforms built for them. Why then did they design the entire Crosstown line to operate using low-floor vehicles rather than a line with level boarding?

I ask because I really don't like our current streetcars at all which these are incredibly similar to and I'd like to hope there was some sort of worthwhile planning/design/engineering reasoning to picking nearly identical vehicles (in a layout sense) to our streetcars.
 
I apologize as I'm sure this was already discussed, but It's my understanding that every stop, even the ones at-grade, have platforms built for them. Why then did they design the entire Crosstown line to operate using low-floor vehicles rather than a line with level boarding?

I ask because I really don't like our current streetcars at all which these are incredibly similar to and I'd like to hope there was some sort of worthwhile planning/design/engineering reasoning to picking nearly identical vehicles (in a layout sense) to our streetcars.

It will have level boarding. Lots of pictures out there of the stations.

Screenshot_2023-10-15_185555.jpg
 
It will have level boarding. Lots of pictures out there of the stations.
Sorry I misspoke. I meant to say why didn't we choose vehicles that can take advantage of level boarding by not having a terrible low floor layout inside? Like our subway cars which don't have to make space in the passenger area for engines and other equipment jutting up from below the floor.
 
Sorry I misspoke. I meant to say why didn't we choose vehicles that can take advantage of level boarding by not having a terrible low floor layout inside? Like our subway cars which don't have to make space in the passenger area for engines and other equipment jutting up from below the floor.
Two thirds of the stations were to be on the surface, along with three other lines that were to use the same vehicles, of which only one survived, so it made sense to use low level platforms.
 
Although it is called "low floor", it is still a foot above the track which around twice as high as the platforms on Spadina/St Clair.

I wonder how well this level boarding performs especially with fully packed trains. The TRs had an issue with this on some stations resulting in the TTC raising the platform edges to be on a slope to remove the height differences.
 

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