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2022/23 Russian-Ukrainian War

It's unfortunate that he was given acclamation at such an important event.
Agreed. Not the smartest move on the part of Canada.


Paywall free: https://archive.ph/YMGm8
 
Agreed. Not the smartest move on the part of Canada.


Paywall free: https://archive.ph/YMGm8
To be fair, he did apologize.
Did Mr Pollievere? I seem to recall the standing ovation included the Conservative party.
 
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I see no charitable interpretation here. Either they knowingly invited a Nazi to give a speech, or they failed to do even the most basic research on this "war veteran". You'd think one of the very first things they would look into was who they served with, and where, surely.

It was either malice, or stupidity. And if it was the latter, I would much rather politicians didn't do stupid things, rather than apologizing after having done them.
 
I see no charitable interpretation here. Either they knowingly invited a Nazi to give a speech, or they failed to do even the most basic research on this "war veteran".

Who is 'they'? It would appear that this was decision taken solely by The Speaker of the House, acting in his capacity as Local MP (the man was a constituent)

You'd think one of the very first things they would look into was who they served with, and where, surely.

One would have thought that someone in the Speaker's office would have asked a few more questions (ie. with what Unit did you serve in WWII?) and done some cursory googling of same. Perhaps even a bit more thoroughness would have been a reasonable expectation for someone being publicly acknowleged in parliament, particularly in the circumstances. That said, the former would have been adequate to ascertain that the recognition should not happen.

Regrettably, this (basic vetting) appears not to have happened.

It was either malice, or stupidity. And if it was the latter, I would much rather politicians didn't do stupid things, rather than apologizing after having done them.

Extreme carelessness would seem the most apt descriptor to me; I'm not sure on what basis one could consider 'malice'. The damage done occurs only when the background of the man becomes public, and then the damage is to Canada's reputation and then that of The Speaker.

No question it ought not to have happened that would have been preferable. But it having happened, an apology, and The Speaker's resignation would be the appropriate follow-on.
 
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Who is 'they'? It would appear that this was decision taken solely by The Speaker of the House, acting in his capacity as Local MP (the man was a constituent)



One would have thought that someone in the Speaker's office would have asked a few more questions (ie. with what Unit did you serve in WWII?) and done some cursory googling of same. Perhaps even a bit more thoroughness would have been a reasonable expectation for someone being publicly acknowleged in parliament, particularly in the circumstances. That said, the former would have been adequate to ascertain that the recognition should not happen.

Regrettably, this (basic vetting) appears not to have happened.



Extreme carelessness would seem the most apt descriptor to me; I'm not sure on what basis one could consider 'malice'. The damage done occurs only when the background of the man becomes public, and then the damage is to Canada's reputation and then that of The Speaker.

No question it ought not to have happened that would have been preferable. But it having happened, an apology, and The Speaker's resignation would be the appropriate follow-on.
I agree. Apparently, the man's son approached Rota's constituency office with a tale of his father fighting against the Russians for Ukraine, no doubt drawing parallels to current events. It is highly possible the 'Nazi connection' didn't get volunteered. The fact that nobody up the chain thought to do some further probing might speak as an indictment on our educational system.

As an aside, I imagine said son feels pretty bad right now having his very elderly father being the central figure in this circus. He has very little time left.
 
Chrystia Freeland is the Deputy Prime Minister, of Ukrainian ancestry, and her own grandfather was a Nazi collaborator whose newspapers advertised the SS unit Hunka was a part of. She knows exactly who the "First Ukrainian Division" was and should be held to account for saying nothing. Interesting that no mainstream Canadian outlet has yet reported on this obvious connection to Nazigate...
 
Chrystia Freeland is the Deputy Prime Minister, of Ukrainian ancestry, and her own grandfather was a Nazi collaborator whose newspapers advertised the SS unit Hunka was a part of. She knows exactly who the "First Ukrainian Division" was and should be held to account for saying nothing. Interesting that no mainstream Canadian outlet has yet reported on this obvious connection to Nazigate...
Her grandfather aligning with the Nazi's doesn't make her a Nazi. If that is our standard that we use to tar and feather, then perhaps Canada should sever all ties with German-Canadians and Italian-Canadians, as it is likely they also have ancestors that were collaborators.
 
Chrystia Freeland is the Deputy Prime Minister, of Ukrainian ancestry, and her own grandfather was a Nazi collaborator whose newspapers advertised the SS unit Hunka was a part of. She knows exactly who the "First Ukrainian Division" was and should be held to account for saying nothing. Interesting that no mainstream Canadian outlet has yet reported on this obvious connection to Nazigate...

The Speaker independently apologized. The Prime Minister apologized. The Government House Leader (responsible for the day-to-day HoC business) apologized. Do we need a parade lining up at the mike or do you just want a pound of flesh?
 
Her grandfather aligning with the Nazi's doesn't make her a Nazi. If that is our standard that we use to tar and feather, then perhaps Canada should sever all ties with German-Canadians and Italian-Canadians, as it is likely they also have ancestors that were collaborators.
Of course she's not a Nazi, and my comment was not intended to imply that. Her familial connections to Ukrainian Nazi collaborators (and contribution to scholarly work investigating those connections) means she has unique knowledge of the topic and undoubtedly knew what sort of group Hunka must have been a part of.
The Speaker independently apologized. The Prime Minister apologized. The Government House Leader (responsible for the day-to-day HoC business) apologized. Do we need a parade lining up at the mike or do you just want a pound of flesh?
Again, Freeland knows exactly what it means for a Ukrainian to have fought against the Russians during World War II. Thus, her silence was uniquely scandalous. It is puzzling that the press has not sought to inquire about her thoughts/actions between the event and the eventual public scandal.

I don't really care about Trudeau, the House Leader, or the Speaker, who obviously had no idea what was going on. It's embarrassing for them, but I don't expect them to know the history. This isn't some broad LPC critique or pro-Tory talking point.
 
Of course she's not a Nazi, and my comment was not intended to imply that. Her familial connections to Ukrainian Nazi collaborators (and contribution to scholarly work investigating those connections) means she has unique knowledge of the topic and undoubtedly knew what sort of group Hunka must have been a part of.
And most likely became aware of his presence in the gallery at exactly the same time everybody else did.

I don't really care about Trudeau, the House Leader, or the Speaker, who obviously had no idea what was going on. It's embarrassing for them, but I don't expect them to know the history. This isn't some broad LPC critique or pro-Tory talking point.
Actually, I do, at least in broad strokes and at least enough to think 'hmmm . . . , we might want to look into this a little more. Not a lot of clean hands in many countries back then'.

The PM apologized on behalf of the government. It seems she had no role in this. Every organization has a hierarchy and communications strategy; I'm not sure what more you would want her to do. They want this to go off the news cycle quickly so more talking and sound bites prolongs that. Perhaps she has held public comment because she knows the opposition (large and small 'O') will want to talk about her grandfather and keep the cycle going.
 
I imagine said son feels pretty bad right now having his very elderly father being the central figure in this circus.
He should have known better. This man’s son has done so much damage to Canada and embarrassingly brought a questionable period of Ukraine’s history into the public eye. My wife’s great uncle also served in the Ukrainian SS Division, but kept a low profile for the rest of his days.
 
And most likely became aware of his presence in the gallery at exactly the same time everybody else did.
I would hope so, as foreknowledge by Freeland would be even more scandalous (and is part of what I'd like the press to inquire about/investigate).

Regardless, the fact remains that she stood up and applauded someone she must have realized was a Nazi collaborator, then stayed silent for two days (likely) hoping no one would realize. Evidently she's unprincipled and was/is withholding comment for PR reasons, as you suggest, which is why I said that she "should be held to account", hopefully by the press. Given that this is one of the most significant scandals in recent Canadian history, Freeland is a top official, and she has unique insight into the scandal, I don't think this is unreasonable.
 
The stumble with US politics to funding really shows how much Canada and Europe have screwed up in Ukraine support. That we can't carry the load without the US, reveals all our (and Europe's) claims about supporting democratic values hypocritical and insincere.

We are leaving the Ukrainians to struggle against Russian authoritarianism because we can't be bothered to pay pennies more in taxes.
 
The stumble with US politics to funding really shows how much Canada and Europe have screwed up in Ukraine support. That we can't carry the load without the US, reveals all our (and Europe's) claims about supporting democratic values hypocritical and insincere.

We are leaving the Ukrainians to struggle against Russian authoritarianism because we can't be bothered to pay pennies more in taxes.

This is why we need to focus more on defense spending.

The US is unpredictable. Their House of Representatives and Senate are so corrupt that they cannot be relied upon for anything substantive. Unless it involves something serious like 9/11, everyone is looking out for themselves.

Even as a nation, Canada cannot rely upon the US for defense because depending on who gets elected they may tell us to kick rocks.
 

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