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Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

I'm confused about the ambiguity over where this train will land in Toronto. Is it a platform limitation or a issue with the approach? I just assumed it would steal the via platforms at Union and call it a day. It would suck for via, but it makes the most sense to me considering the volume it will be taking from them.
 
I'm confused about the ambiguity over where this train will land in Toronto. Is it a platform limitation or a issue with the approach? I just assumed it would steal the via platforms at Union and call it a day. It would suck for via, but it makes the most sense to me considering the volume it will be taking from them.
That likely is part of the thing they are figuring out. Going to Union would be ideal, but not if you are dealing with the mess to get to Union.
 
I'm confused about the ambiguity over where this train will land in Toronto. Is it a platform limitation or a issue with the approach? I just assumed it would steal the via platforms at Union and call it a day. It would suck for via, but it makes the most sense to me considering the volume it will be taking from them.
I suspect there is uncertainly (ambiguity) because they don't really know yet.
 
I hadn't realised this was fantasy stuff. Which would explain how you'd knock down half of that heritage building to put in the platform ... (or would you knock down 141 Bay?)
Realistically, it would be very complicated because CIBC square is right behind 1 Front St. ALTO would have to either build underground train tracks separate from the main GO/VIA tracks, or it could use the same GO/VIA tracks and connect to the station at 1 Front st using a bridge, either underground bridge or above ground bridge.
It also doesn’t help there’s two tower proposal on this building at the corner of front and Bay. So this proposal although not impossible to build would be super complicated, it is a total dream of mine 🥹😂
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I suspect there is uncertainly (ambiguity) because they don't really know yet.
I don’t think they have any space at Union to have the ALTO station integrated to union, where there’s already GO and VIA rail. That’s why I fantasized with having it at 1 Front St W. And just have a tunnel connecting both buildings.
 
It is, but not going to it would be a mistake.
I think not going to union would be a mistake but also integrating ALTO to the same building at Union is also a mistake because union is already too crowed. Too much to handle with the TTC, GO and VIA. 1 Front St is the perfect way to expand Union to the East while still being so close and easy to connect as 1 giant transit Hub.
 
That likely is part of the thing they are figuring out. Going to Union would be ideal, but not if you are dealing with the mess to get to Union.
And moreover, the 407 / Yonge concept likely has some real constructability benefits. I'd be surprised if there isn't some real advocacy for it happening internally.
 
And moreover, the 407 / Yonge concept likely has some real constructability benefits. I'd be surprised if there isn't some real advocacy for it happening internally.
It would be insanely penny-wise, pound-foolish, though.

Easier to build, maybe, but would preclude the possibility of connecting to existing passenger tracks where reaching the top speed isn't necessary, and puts it much further away from both the downtown core and Pearson International Airport.
 
Why not just boot VIA? It's about to get completely cannibalized anyway...
I don't think that actually solves any problems. Via still needs platforms and space somewhere inner-city Toronto, and bumping them out of Union would absolutely depend upon finding that space elsewhere. Even if we allow for the possibility that Via may not need as many platforms or square feet in 2050 as they use today, the federal government would still end up spending a fortune and borrowing all the trouble associated with building it.
 
There doesn't seem to be room for ALTO on top of everything that's already there. Yet stations are called "Union" because they bring everything together in one place, instead of various lines going to different stations. Booting VIA, whose lines are supposed to be feeders to some extent, as are GO's, makes little sense. So something may have to go in a Tunnel somewhere near Union. I would suggest having one end of that station connected to Union and the other to another building (DPB or the Convention Centre to be replaced) could do it.

Whatever goes in the tunnel has to be electrified, so it's either GO's future electrified lines or ALTO. Over a decade ago planners came out with a concept for four-track two-platform tunnel directly beneath Union for Lakeshore GO and perhaps another pair of lines. Another idea was to reroute some of the lines from the Northwest into a tunnel under Front, ending around York. I would say taking some of GO traffic out of the elevated platforms to make room for ALTO is more obvious, but it could be the other way around.

The other possibility is putting ALTO elsewhere, such as East Harbour. That has connections to GO and TTC, and is near the core, which is where ALTO has clearly said they are headed. I think a line station on the lakeshore ROW is nearly impossible given the layout. What could be built more easily is an underground terminus with tracks northbound in a tunnel under the DVP. But that would put ALTO and VIA in different locations, which is Union-challenged. So even though it will be difficult to put something in the crowded area between John and Church, I think it needs to be done.
 

He says the station would likely sit in a nearby suburb, attracting more passengers from the surrounding region and allowing access to the line while construction on the costlier final leg into downtown Toronto is completed.

So that means potentially three stations in the Toronto area in the fullness of time: something in an east-end suburb, Union Station, and YYZ.
 

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