Bradford Bypass (MTO, Hwy 400 - Hwy 404)

[Civdis]

All that money to save people 2 minutes if we're lucky

Also anyone familiar with GTA traffic flow would never take the 2 alternate routes you have drawn.

That is not realistic

And what traffic model are you basing your "2 minutes" of time savings on?

 

[narduch]

And what traffic model are you basing your "2 minutes" of time savings on?

I'm basing it on my own anecdotal evidence of the current time savings of driving from Vaughan to Cannington (which I had to do for a real life project) using the 407 vs Davis/Green Lane

 

[nfitz]

Also anyone familiar with GTA traffic flow would never take the 2 alternate routes you have drawn.

Why not? If you are coming up from downtown on the DVP to Barrie, currently you cut across to 400 on the 401, or 407. This simply adds a 3rd option, depending on traffic.

 

[narduch]

Why not? If you are coming up from downtown on the DVP to Barrie, currently you cut across to 400 on the 401, or 407. This simply adds a 3rd option, depending on traffic.

Because the traffic is really bad on the southern East-West route. It will negate any time saving from the bypass

 

[nfitz]

Because the traffic is really bad on the southern East-West route. It will negate any time saving from the bypass

I'm not sure what you are referring to by southern east-west route. 401?

If 400 is a disaster zone between 407 and Bradford (starting downtown and going up the DVP and potentially the 404), then going all the way up to the Bradford bypass will be faster. People are already going up and crossing between the 400 and 404 at old Highway 9 (Davis). The new bypass would be faster than 9.

 

[Ward8]

A route that completes a rectangle of routes provides redundancy.

There are other roads across... I've always found this a perplexing build as it provides capacity and redundancy that is only helpful a relatively small amount of the time.

 

[golden-horseshoe-valley]

Of the two new highways being pushed by Ford, this one seems the less objectionable to me. There's long been a need in the Bradford/Innisfil area for an additional Holland River crossing. It used to be called the Highway 89 extension when I was young. For some reason that never got built and now it's going to be a freeway. Unlike the 413, the Bradford Bypass really is fixing a longstanding transportation issue in the area, and should hopefully reduce truck traffic and through-traffic through Bradford's downtown, making it safer and more pleasant. As a tree-hugger, I can't help wishing the province could dial the scope back somewhat, something that takes up a smaller footprint and with fewer interchanges to encourage sprawl. But the real sprawl-inducer is the 413.

 

[narduch]

I'm not sure what you are referring to by southern east-west route. 401?

If 400 is a disaster zone between 407 and Bradford (starting downtown and going up the DVP and potentially the 404), then going all the way up to the Bradford bypass will be faster. People are already going up and crossing between the 400 and 404 at old Highway 9 (Davis). The new bypass would be faster than 9.

In the maps that leopetr created, hypothetically, if I'm at the Crossroads Plaza and need to get to Barrie during rush hour but the 400 is closed (lets say at King Rd.) or has heavy traffic, I am not taking the 401 to 404 + Bypass as an alternate. That is a crazy diversion.

I know this is anecdotal. But I drive around the GTA for a living. Hell this highway in question would be great for me. I still don't think its necessary for the greater good of the GTA.

 

[Civdis]

I'm basing it on my own anecdotal evidence of the current time savings of driving from Vaughan to Cannington (which I had to do for a real life project) using the 407 vs Davis/Green Lane

Well at least you are being honest . The 400 is known to have severe capacity issues when impacted by weather, accidents, or cottage country travel. My only point is that this bypass will assist in diverting traffic to the 404 and relieving the 400 as well as the 401 between 400 and 404. Not to mention taking strain off of local roads.

 

[narduch]

Well at least you are being honest . The 400 is known to have severe capacity issues when impacted by weather, accidents, or cottage country travel. My only point is that this bypass will assist in diverting traffic to the 404 and relieving the 400 as well as the 401 between 400 and 404. Not to mention taking strain off of local roads.

As I mentioned above this is wishful thinking. Nobody that is already near the 400 and has to get to a northern destination near the 400 is driving to the 404. They will use Jane or 27 or Weston or something else

 

[leopetr]

As I mentioned above this is wishful thinking. Nobody that is already near the 400 and has to get to a northern destination near the 400 is driving to the 404. They will use Jane or 27 or Weston or something else

I am not saying this highway is the top priority for GTA infrastructure, or that the environmental impacts are acceptable, but as someone regularly getting to a northern destination near the 11 the Bradford Bypass is going to be useful for me. Right now the 400 vs the 404+48 is a coinflip for that, and having the ability to bypass Barrie or bypass Vaughan or bypass Beaverton or bypass Newmarket is going to be clutch. It fulfills the same infrastructure purpose as resurrecting the Northlander -- it makes getting to cottage country easier. I'm one of the people taking Davis Drive from the 404 to the 400 and vice versa now.

 

[north-of-anything]

There are other roads across... I've always found this a perplexing build as it provides capacity and redundancy that is only helpful a relatively small amount of the time.

And they're also obscenely congested during rush hour, and have plenty of commercial driveways.

People are already going up and crossing between the 400 and 404 at old Highway 9 (Davis). The new bypass would be faster than 9.

I've given up completely on Davis east of Bathurst, unless my destination is within Newmarket.

My go-to routing is Mulock within Newmarket, and up Bathurst to take Davis to the 400. I also like St John's Sideroad when travelling to/from Aurora, because it's nearly a straight shot to the 400 via Lloydtown-Aurora Road, but it would definitely be easier to go north and then east on Mulock if the Bypass existed.

Green Lane to Highway 11 into Bradford is a horrid experience. That's the route that needs relief most of all. The bridge into town is currently down to one lane each way for rehabilitation.

 

[Civdis]

As I mentioned above this is wishful thinking. Nobody that is already near the 400 and has to get to a northern destination near the 400 is driving to the 404. They will use Jane or 27 or Weston or something else

You are referencing one specific situation and ignoring a plethora of others. I drive from Barrie to downtown all of the time. I would love to head south on the 400, scoot across the new bypass to 404 and head south to downtown via the DVP thereby avoiding the 401 entirely. There are many more drivers I am sure who would follow my route to head east out of Toronto bypassing the busiest part of the 401 between 400 and 404. Not to mention also going north from downtown to Barrie. As I said, redundancy creates optionality which is a good thing in transportation planning (or water distribution systems for that matter, that is why things are designed in loops).

 

[narduch]

You are referencing one specific situation and ignoring a plethora of others.

I based my example on the sketches that leopetr created.

That's why I took the conversation there.

In both examples I disgree that someone from Point A would swing all the way over to the other major North-South highway to get to Point B.

 

[narduch]

And they're also obscenely congested during rush hour, and have plenty of commercial driveways.

And they still will be after this highway is built.