Billy Bishop Airport Expansion?

[picard102]

We have no idea if support is growing or not. Perhaps apathy has grown, as most people don't interact with Billy Bishop at all and there is no competing proposal.

All we have is polling showing high support for the airport in general, and now high support for the expansion. Feel free to find polling that says it's "not very popular with Torontonians".

 

[Ward8]

All we have is polling showing high support for the airport in general, and now high support for the expansion.

So far we've got a survey from 2013 showing things split down the middle, and a kouvalis special. I'm not exactly feeling swamped with a comprehensive level of information.

 

[afransen]

I don't understand how Ford can do anything about BB. I know he loves to micro-manage Toronto but airports are 100% the domain of the federal government and is federal gov't land. They can listen to the concerns of the province but are under no obligation to follow thru on their requests. An expanding BB, I don't think, would be very popular with Torontonians and I don't think Carney is going to put some of those hard-core Toronto seats at risk just to appease Ford who probably won't even run in the next provincial election anyway.

Carney will likely just slow roll this with studies.

 

[Civdis]

Personally, I think that someone who has to live near the flightpath should have more of a say in this decision than someone who lives in Pickering.

Why, the airport has been there forever, long before the condos sprouted up. Buyer beware. Waterfront residents should definitely have a say, but no more than anyone else in the city. If we used that logic, we wouldn't get any major infrastructure built. The above ground portion of the Ontario Line and UPX being prime examples.

 

[SubHuman]

I am a supporter of the airport expansion, but not if the runway makes that much of an incursion into the harbour. I am not sure it needs to be that long, and if it does, why not extend it more westward toward Ontario Place where it will have less impact on downtown residents and harbour front.

If having the runway extend to the west would be better, the idea mentioned in the 2015 report to Air Canada was building a new runway south of the present one, which would then become a parallel taxiway, though that would cost more.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/te...cle_a1cb74d0-ed82-4b2f-b273-60781d59e247.html
https://archive.ph/FOlZG

Toronto Port Authority ... agency’s vice-president of communications, said it is still “developing a plan” that will be shared in the coming months, along with a consultation process.

It will be interesting to hear what they're proposing. With the number of commercial flights having decreased significantly in recent years from there, it's difficult to not be a little suspicious that their real goal may be attracting private jet use. The mentions of YTZ becoming more of an alternative to Pearson might be about trying to "sell" to the public the idea of a small expansion (for small jet aircraft), while in reality it might do little or nothing to increase passenger airline flights.
A significant increase in flights and passenger volume would also require a significant increase in the size of the terminal and other airport infrastructure, all of which might not fit onto the present small area of YTZ.

 

[innsertnamehere]

If having the runway extend to the west would be better, the idea mentioned in the 2015 report to Air Canada was building a new runway south of the present one, which would then become a parallel taxiway, though that would cost more.
https://archive.is/FOlZG

It will be interesting to hear what they're proposing. With the number of commercial flights having decreased significantly in recent years from there, it's difficult to not be a little suspicious that their real goal may be attracting private jet use. The mentions of YTZ becoming more of an alternative to Pearson might be about trying to "sell" the small expansion to the public, while in reality it would do little or nothing to increase passenger airline flights.

I think you'd be a fool to think that allowing the shift to jets would do nothing to baseline passenger numbers.

The decline in traffic at the island airport to me likely has more to do with declining trans-border traffic and the uncompetitive cost model of prop planes, which operators are using older and older options for. There is a reason most major airliners have shifted away from small prop-drive regional services in the last decade.

That said.. will it hit the numbers the province is hoping? maybe not.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The decline in traffic at the island airport to me likely has more to do with declining trans-border traffic and the uncompetitive cost model of prop planes, which operators are using older and older options for. There is a reason most major airliners have shifted away from small prop-drive regional services in the last decade.

The age of the intercity 50–90 seat prop plane is coming to an end. The last Bombardier Q400 (Dash-8) rolled off the production line in 2022. Similarly, SAAB 2000 production ended in 1999, the Fokker 50/60 ended in 1999 and the BAe ATP in 1996. With the Airbus C295 now being exclusively for the military, the only prop airliner in this category still in production is the ATR 72, which no North American passenger service uses. Though as the last remaining, and therefore monopoly player in the regional prop airliner space, they seem to be seeing some immediate success in this otherwise declining market.

If YTO doesn't switch over to jets, it's only a matter of time before there are no commercial passenger aircraft available to operate from this airport. Which I suspect was the unspoken hope of those who want no commercial airport whatsoever on the islands. With the scarcity of prop options, by the end of the 2030s it is more than likely that commercial passenger flights into YTO will be ONLY jets.

 

[bobbob911]

Does anyone know what was said by Mark Carney today about Federal support for this expansion? He held a press conference with Doug Ford and Olivia Chow

 

[txlseries4]

A couple familiar names posted a couple quotes.

There might have been more, I tuned in for a couple minutes but someone was yelling the whole time (maybe with a megaphone?) and it was too chaotic and distracting. CBC put the presser on youtube.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I wonder what size of jets would be allowed if the 1,216m runway is extended to the proposed 1,524m (5,000ft).

Key West (EYW) in Florida (see runway and terminal below) has a 5,076 ft runway, and weight-restricted Airbus A319s, A320s Boeing 737-700s regularly fly from there.

I imagine once the Portlands are developed that flying a A320 or 737 to Billy Bishop would be reminiscent of flying into Hong Kong's old Kai Tak Airport where the pilot had to dodge skyscrapers on approach.

 

[Amare]

The age of the intercity 50–90 seat prop plane is coming to an end. The last Bombardier Q400 (Dash-8) rolled off the production line in 2022. Similarly, SAAB 2000 production ended in 1999, the Fokker 50/60 ended in 1999 and the BAe ATP in 1996. With the Airbus C295 now being exclusively for the military, the only prop airliner in this category still in production is the ATR 72, which no North American passenger service uses. Though as the last remaining, and therefore monopoly player in the regional prop airliner space, they seem to be seeing some immediate success in this otherwise declining market.

If YTO doesn't switch over to jets, it's only a matter of time before there are no commercial passenger aircraft available to operate from this airport. Which I suspect was the unspoken hope of those who want no commercial airport whatsoever on the islands. With the scarcity of prop options, by the end of the 2030s it is more than likely that commercial passenger flights into YTO will be ONLY jets.

DeHavilland is considering re-starting production of the Q400, so turboprops arent completely dead.

 

[Admiral Beez]

DeHavilland is considering re-starting production of the Q400, so turboprops arent completely dead.

I was going to write that too, but IMO it's a non-starter. DHC once said they were considering starting the Dash-7 and before that in 2016 the DHC-5 Buffalo, but nothing has come of it.

 

[JamesKoole]

The overrun is the bigger issue. You can put some of that special concrete at either end, but that adds more length required. Having the harbour or Lake Ontario right off the end of the runways is not ideal.

 

[nfitz]

The overrun is the bigger issue. You can put some of that special concrete at either end, but that adds more length required. Having the harbour or Lake Ontario right off the end of the runways is not ideal.

It's softer than the gulley at the west end of the Pearson runway along the 401.

 

[lenaitch]

The overrun is the bigger issue. You can put some of that special concrete at either end, but that adds more length required. Having the harbour or Lake Ontario right off the end of the runways is not ideal.

They could do like Queen Juliana airport on Sint Maarten and build a beach at the end of the runway, at a bar, and turn it into a tourist attraction.