TTC: Scarborough Busway Construction (portion of the former Scarborough RT route)

[Aplus23]

was there ever a thought of extending the SRT and getting new rolling stock to continue making use of the infrastructure

 

[Jonathan's Junction]

was there ever a thought of extending the SRT and getting new rolling stock to continue making use of the infrastructure

Yes, the SRT was originally envisioned to be extended north east. I believe the problem with getting new rolling stock would have been that the curves were too tight- at Kennedy station and at Ellesmere. This is in part because the SRT was built as a streetcar line.

 

[Aplus23]

Yes, the SRT was originally envisioned to be extended north east. I believe the problem with getting new rolling stock would have been that the curves were too tight- at Kennedy station and at Ellesmere. This is in part because the SRT was built as a streetcar line.

those issues couldn't be resolved

 

[Jonathan's Junction]

those issues couldn't be resolved

Sure, they could've with enough money. But that ship sailed long ago, for better or for worse.

 

[smallspy]

Sure, they could've with enough money. But that ship sailed long ago, for better or for worse.

Just to flesh this out a bit....

By the time the TTC was serious about extending the line, Bombardier was building the Mark II version of the car, which is longer and wider than the original cars used on the SRT.

The TTC asked Bombardier about building new Mark I cars for them instead, and was quoted what would politely be referred to as a "go away" price.

By virtue of the Mark II cars being larger they don't handle tight curves as well, plus their dynamic envelope is considerably bigger. This would have necessitated many, many changes to the line, not the least of which was rebuilding most of the existing stations, rebuilding (and expanding) the tunnel under the Uxbridge Sub, rebuilding the terminus at Kennedy and a new maintenance facility.

The scope of the changes was so great, that coupled with the fact that the line was always going to use a technology that was different and not interchangeable with any other line in Toronto, that it was felt to rebuild the line to use LRT technology. It wasn't going to cost significantly more to do the work for that conversion, and in the long run maintenance costs were expected to be considerably lower as the rolling stock could have been common with that used on the Crosstown and the then projected Sheppard East Line.

Dan

 

[smallspy]

Huh you're right. I'd never noticed that. I found this video of Route 29 and at 1:16:34 we can see the Maximum 25 km/h signs entering Winston Churchil station.

I assume it's due to the at-grade crossings, since the stations with grade-separated crossings have a 50 km/h limit (like Central Parkway at 1:27:25).

Renforth station (at 1:35:45) also has a 25 km/h limit even though the pedestrian crossings are grade-separated but I actually remember that one being installed. People were running across the roadway and climbing the central barrier rather than going up an over to transfer between platforms, so they installed that 25 limit as a "quick fix". They then added a glass extension on top of the barriers to make them harder to climb (visible in the footage) but never put the speed limit back up to 50.

Like you said, it's interesting that the City doesn't require car drivers (or transport truck drivers) to slow to 25 km/h at every at-grade pedestrian crossing on the general road network. Reducing speeds at pedestrian crossings is definitely good for safety - for example in the Netherlands the design guidance is to install traffic calming at Zebra Crossings to reduce the speed of traffic to 30 km/h at the crossing. But in Toronto it seems that this standard only applies in to public transit vehicles, not private vehicles.

I don't recall there ever being a higher speed limit through Renforth, and to that end I can recall that several of my operator friends complaining about the speeds and layout through there shortly after it opened.

Thus, I've always assumed (rightfully or wrongfully) that the Metrolinx-built busway stations were given that 25km/h limit because they are owned and operated by Metrolinx, whereas the City-built ones don't have that artificial limit.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

Just to flesh this out a bit....

By the time the TTC was serious about extending the line, Bombardier was building the Mark II version of the car, which is longer and wider than the original cars used on the SRT.

The TTC asked Bombardier about building new Mark I cars for them instead, and was quoted what would politely be referred to as a "go away" price.

By virtue of the Mark II cars being larger they don't handle tight curves as well, plus their dynamic envelope is considerably bigger. This would have necessitated many, many changes to the line, not the least of which was rebuilding most of the existing stations, rebuilding (and expanding) the tunnel under the Uxbridge Sub, rebuilding the terminus at Kennedy and a new maintenance facility.

The scope of the changes was so great, that coupled with the fact that the line was always going to use a technology that was different and not interchangeable with any other line in Toronto, that it was felt to rebuild the line to use LRT technology. It wasn't going to cost significantly more to do the work for that conversion, and in the long run maintenance costs were expected to be considerably lower as the rolling stock could have been common with that used on the Crosstown and the then projected Sheppard East Line.

Dan

The modifications to use the longer cars - and even more Mark I cars might have had some cost - but it was in the hundreds of millions. Not the billions to ten billions that the subway extension is costing. Though would have required a lengthy closure - which paradoxically was a big negative back then.

But ancient history - and well covered many times in the SRT thread.