Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[ssiguy2]

Who says you have to buy them from the same manufacturer. This is standard gauge track with a litany of suppliers. Just buy some new battery trains to increase frequency and hence capacity and just run these crates at the same time until they have to be replaced.

 

[McGillicuddy]

The idea of UPX electrification always seemed to me a fig leaf: politicians deciding to blow a few million dollars on flashy but shallow promises about future electrification as a way of cutting the legs out from under the neighbourhood groups protesting diesel trains in their backyards. (Who, at the time, were both loud and attracting favourable notices in the press.)

This may have saved the project, but that doesn't mean the promises were serious.

 

[dowlingm]

Nippon have shipped UPX-type DMUs from Japan before, but need to use a better shipping company this time

Four new rail cars costing $11 million damaged upon delivery to SMART

Author KEVIN FIXLER THE PRESS DEMOCRAT | November 26, 2018, 7:41PM Four new diesel rail cars Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit planned to put on the tracks in December to close a hole in its nightly w…

ecoring.org

 

[Vortex112]

I swear Metrolinx is the only transit agency in the world that sees high demand as something that needs to be quashed (remove transit interchanges, increase prices, or renovate trains to be less appealing to airport passengers) instead of applauded and embraced (Increase service on the Kitchener line. A corridor which already has all the infrastructure required to run trains every ~10 minutes).

The UPX should be oriented towards airport travel. And it’ll do that best when the Kitchener line has good frequent service.

 

[crs1026]

I swear Metrolinx is the only transit agency in the world that sees high demand as something that needs to be quashed (remove transit interchanges, increase prices, or renovate trains to be less appealing to airport passengers) instead of applauded and embraced (Increase service on the Kitchener line. A corridor which already has all the infrastructure required to run trains every ~10 minutes).

The UPX should be oriented towards airport travel. And it’ll do that best when the Kitchener line has good frequent service.

I agree with your basic thrust, but let’s put this in perspective. So far, we have local customers causing overcrowding on small three-car trains that run every 15 minutes.
We can and should raise the local service on GO to every 15 minutes or better, thereby removing the incentive to take the UP…… but….
It doesn’t take many local passengers to overload a UPX train… so even 6-car GO trains running at better heafways are going to run pretty empty. Really we are trying to shed a busload or so of customers from each UP run…. Not even a single double decker car load. The economics of expanding Go service may not be attractive until we can run that service past Bramalea
We could also finesse fares to steer local riders away from UP ….but…. That might require more intensive fare enforcement, and would be a logistic challenge as fare inspection would have to happen on the non-airport platforms….after riders get off….. Are we willing to put in that effort?
The mistake here was designing the express airport service first and then adding on local service as an afterthought. Should have happened the other way round.
On the bright side, we are demonstrating that there is strong demand for both “express”ish airport transit and basic Go service in this corridor. That’s a nice problem to have.

- Paul

 

[ssiguy2]

I swear Metrolinx is the only transit agency in the world that sees high demand as something that needs to be quashed (remove transit interchanges, increase prices, or renovate trains to be less appealing to airport passengers) instead of applauded and embraced (Increase service on the Kitchener line. A corridor which already has all the infrastructure required to run trains every ~10 minutes).

The UPX should be oriented towards airport travel. And it’ll do that best when the Kitchener line has good frequent service.

This is what I don't understand about ML and I'm not sure if this is the right thread to discuss it but.........

Who and what exactly is ML? I know it's suppose to coordinate regional transit connections between all the transit agencies in the GTHA but how exactly is it governed? Are these all just appointed positions, do the cities have reps on the board, and how is it funded? I know that it, ultimately, is answerable to QP but that's another thing I don't understand.. Usually opening transit lines with a nice juicy ribbon cutting is the stuff politicians dream of but ML has so screwed up everything it touches even politicians don't won't to be associated with it. It's become nothing but an endless headache for Ford so why doesn't he or transportation Minister fired the whole damn lot of them?

Also, what are the city's role in all of this? Do they not have a say at what goes on at ML? Looking at GO electrification and better service that they were promised and have never gotten you would think they would be screaming up a storm but instead of they say little, or worse, make excuses for them like Chow. Please make this make sense because ML endless lies, corruption, and shocking incompetence seams to completely unchallenged and I just don't get it.

 

[reaperexpress]

I agree with your basic thrust, but let’s put this in perspective. So far, we have local customers causing overcrowding on small three-car trains that run every 15 minutes.
We can and should raise the local service on GO to every 15 minutes or better, thereby removing the incentive to take the UP…… but….
It doesn’t take many local passengers to overload a UPX train… so even 6-car GO trains running at better heafways are going to run pretty empty. Really we are trying to shed a busload or so of customers from each UP run…. Not even a single double decker car load. The economics of expanding Go service may not be attractive until we can run that service past Bramalea
We could also finesse fares to steer local riders away from UP ….but…. That might require more intensive fare enforcement, and would be a logistic challenge as fare inspection would have to happen on the non-airport platforms….after riders get off….. Are we willing to put in that effort?
The mistake here was designing the express airport service first and then adding on local service as an afterthought. Should have happened the other way round.
On the bright side, we are demonstrating that there is strong demand for both “express”ish airport transit and basic Go service in this corridor. That’s a nice problem to have.

- Paul

If DMUs are what it takes to run 15 minute service to Bramalea, then let's buy some FLIRTs and just do it! The infrastructure is nearly ready for it, all it would take is a second GO track at Halwest.

They're already actively suppressing demand on UP by using a completely disconnected fare system from the TTC and GO that requires a full additional fare for transfering passengers, unlike GO which provides free transfers to both.

It's also odd that nobody has mentioned Weston Station. It's the single largest origin for commutes to Union on UPX and the stop has very little importance for passengers to/from the airport, especially now that Mount Dennis opened. If you want to encourage commuters to use GO instead, skipping Weston will singlehandedly solve that problem. It's worth noting that the lack of fare integration discourage people from using UPX from the airport (since they probably need to transfer to another transit line to get to their destination), but it does not discourage people from driving to Weston station and taking a one-seat ride to Union.

 

[APTA-2048]

It's also odd that nobody has mentioned Weston Station. It's the single largest origin for commutes to Union on UPX and the stop has very little importance for passengers to/from the airport, especially now that Mount Dennis opened. If you want to encourage commuters to use GO instead, skipping Weston will singlehandedly solve that problem. It's worth noting that the lack of fare integration discourage people from using UPX from the airport (since they probably need to transfer to another transit line to get to their destination), but it does not discourage people from driving to Weston station and taking a one-seat ride to Union.

I will say though: it discouraged me from taking the LSE from Rouge Hill and then UP to Bloor to get to High Park. Before, the UP leg was free.

 

[Jonny5]

This is what I don't understand about ML and I'm not sure if this is the right thread to discuss it but.........

Who and what exactly is ML? I know it's suppose to coordinate regional transit connections between all the transit agencies in the GTHA but how exactly is it governed? Are these all just appointed positions, do the cities have reps on the board, and how is it funded? I know that it, ultimately, is answerable to QP but that's another thing I don't understand.. Usually opening transit lines with a nice juicy ribbon cutting is the stuff politicians dream of but ML has so screwed up everything it touches even politicians don't won't to be associated with it. It's become nothing but an endless headache for Ford so why doesn't he or transportation Minister fired the whole damn lot of them?

Also, what are the city's role in all of this? Do they not have a say at what goes on at ML? Looking at GO electrification and better service that they were promised and have never gotten you would think they would be screaming up a storm but instead of they say little, or worse, make excuses for them like Chow. Please make this make sense because ML endless lies, corruption, and shocking incompetence seams to completely unchallenged and I just don't get it.

ML was governed by the cities, and the GT(H?)A mayors were all on the board of directors, though it was technically still an Ontario government entity.

Then the format was unilaterally changed and city participation was eliminated. Now it is operated mostly like any other Crown Corporation like the LCBO or OLG with board members appointed by the ministry who are ultimately accountable only to that provincial ministry.

 

[Bordercollie]

If DMUs are what it takes to run 15 minute service to Bramalea, then let's buy some FLIRTs and just do it! The infrastructure is nearly ready for it, all it would take is a second GO track at Halwest.

They're already actively suppressing demand on UP by using a completely disconnected fare system from the TTC and GO that requires a full additional fare for transfering passengers, unlike GO which provides free transfers to both.

It's also odd that nobody has mentioned Weston Station. It's the single largest origin for commutes to Union on UPX and the stop has very little importance for passengers to/from the airport, especially now that Mount Dennis opened. If you want to encourage commuters to use GO instead, skipping Weston will singlehandedly solve that problem. It's worth noting that the lack of fare integration discourage people from using UPX from the airport (since they probably need to transfer to another transit line to get to their destination), but it does not discourage people from driving to Weston station and taking a one-seat ride to Union.

We don't need additional equipment, we just need to spread the load.

They can make The UP express "express" again and use GO trains to serve local stops.

There is a shortage of motive power and crews. So it's not just about buying more equipment.

 

[McGillicuddy]

This is what I don't understand about ML and I'm not sure if this is the right thread to discuss it but.........

Who and what exactly is ML? I know it's suppose to coordinate regional transit connections between all the transit agencies in the GTHA but how exactly is it governed? Are these all just appointed positions, do the cities have reps on the board, and how is it funded? I know that it, ultimately, is answerable to QP but that's another thing I don't understand.. Usually opening transit lines with a nice juicy ribbon cutting is the stuff politicians dream of but ML has so screwed up everything it touches even politicians don't won't to be associated with it. It's become nothing but an endless headache for Ford so why doesn't he or transportation Minister fired the whole damn lot of them?

Also, what are the city's role in all of this? Do they not have a say at what goes on at ML? Looking at GO electrification and better service that they were promised and have never gotten you would think they would be screaming up a storm but instead of they say little, or worse, make excuses for them like Chow. Please make this make sense because ML endless lies, corruption, and shocking incompetence seams to completely unchallenged and I just don't get it.

The emerging purpose of Metrolinx is to facilitate political control over the planning and operation of regional transit in ways that insulate the politicians from accountability for exercising this control.

The role involves:

• Cooking up "non-partisan" expertise to order. (Metrolinx are truly masters of decision-based evidence-making.)
• Taking on the riskiest and least pleasant tasks associated with transit development (public consultations, lawsuits, environmental assessments, etc.) while reserving the easy, charismatic stuff for the cabinet.
• Serving as a hate sink, even when a fault actually belongs upstream of Metrolinx. (The Minister privately forces Metrolinx to make a terrible decision -> this terrible decision produces a terrible outcome -> the Minister is shocked at the terrible outcome, and publicly demands that Metrolinx resolve it, but does not allocate any resources to do this, nor do they relieve Metrolinx of the directive which led to the terrible decision, nor do they accept any responsibility for issuing the directive. This is called "demanding accountability".)
• Being the public face of all manner of delay, disruption, inconvenience and tragedy. (If it's good news, the Minister gets to do the press conference. If it's bad news, or if the press might ask pointy questions about other projects, it's a Metrolinx joint.)

In many ways, this is a complete inversion of the original purpose of Metrolinx, which was to move regional transit planning slightly beyond parochial local interests: representatives of municipalities and the province would have a say in the organization, but Metrolinx was to be an organization of planners first and foremost, focused on delivering value and quality across the region rather than scratching the itches of every councillor in the golden horseshoe.

This is not to say that Metrolinx achieved this ambition under the Liberals: Kirby Station is an excellent early example of truly revolting political corruption on the part of Steven Del Duca.

The Ford government has taken this up several notches, and are only interested in independence insofar as the appearance of independence facilitates the transfer of accountability I've just described.