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Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

afransen said:
There is zero need for through traffic other than night and shuttle buses. There is a need for access for parking garages and deliveries. It could be mostly pedestrianized to calm vehicle speeds and volumes.
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As much as I hate giving vehicles priority, Yonge Street is a major artery downtown.

If you close it, what options are there for alternatives? Are you going to send everyone down Church Street or Bay (which is already a major thoroughfare itself)?
 
Richard White said:
As much as I hate giving vehicles priority, Yonge Street is a major artery downtown.

If you close it, what options are there for alternatives? Are you going to send everyone down Church Street or Bay (which is already a major thoroughfare itself)?
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Yes.

Yonge is a far more important pedestrian street.
 
For the record, there is technically only one driveway directly on Yonge between Front and Bloor, that’s the Eaton Centre parkade at the intersection of Yonge/Shuter. That’s not to say I advocate removing all vehicle access, it’s just not possible.

Richard White said:
Right but the vehicles are not just going to remain parked in the driveway because someone closed a street. They need to go somwhere.
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I get the idea you don’t frequent Yonge street enough to speak on this topic. Let’s ignore Yonge south of Richmond for now, because that is easily the busiest section as a highway collector.

But between Bloor and Richmond, Yonge already regularly operates as one lane each direction due to all the construction and idling/illegal parking. There is no good reason not to shrink the road here immediately.

The following arrangement from Bloor to Queen would have very limited impact on traffic:
  • Eliminate the curb lane from all areas 2 lanes wide
  • Provide cutouts on one side for parking of designated vehicles only eg. deliveries, maybe night bus stops
  • Provide a dedicated left turn lane on approach to a handful of intersections (for a maximum width of 3 lanes across at any location)
 
Richard White said:
As much as I hate giving vehicles priority, Yonge Street is a major artery downtown.

If you close it, what options are there for alternatives? Are you going to send everyone down Church Street or Bay (which is already a major thoroughfare itself)?
Click to expand...

At most times of day, Yonge north of Queen is relatively empty. I frequently cross mid-block without needing traffic lights, and without needing to sprint across, I can just stroll. There is ample surplus capacity.

Less so at peak times, but this is not a case of displacing large number of cars, at most times.

Also, a 1-lane (per direction road, where those lanes are never closed for construction (of buildings), and where there is no lane-shifting by cars, will actually be more efficient than the current set up and hold higher volumes of traffic per lane km.

At peak times, there isn't much surplus capacity on Bay, but there is on much of Church, so there is some diversion capacity available.

Richard White said:
Right but the vehicles are not just going to remain parked in the driveway because someone closed a street. They need to go somwhere.
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In addition to what I've noted above, its important to say that in fact, reducing capacity for cars does result in at least some marginal reduction in demand. (cars that stay parked in drive ways, to use your parlance).

When you make it more attractive and pleasant to choose walking, cycling or transit, more people will make those choices, when you make it less convenient to choose a car, people will choose it less often.

In combination, its not difficult to imagine an absolute reduction in demand of 25% or more.
 
reinventingthewheel said:
Provide a dedicated left turn lane on approach to a handful of intersections (for a maximum width of 3 lanes across at any location)
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To discourage through traffic, I would suggest prohibiting left turns on Yonge. Intersections are where you need the most pedestrian accumulation space.
 
For those of you who aren't following the "Cycling Infrastructure" thread, a public drop in event will be held for yongeTOmorrow on Tuesday, April 21 (5:30 - 8:30 PM) at Central YMCA (20 Grosvenor Street). While it appears the cycle tracks from College to Gerrard will stay despite Bills 212 and 60, I'm disappointed the pedestrian priority zones near Dundas were dropped.

If you can't make it to the consultation, you can provide your feedback by Tuesday, May 5.

www.toronto.ca

yongeTOmorrow

Attend public drop-in event on Tuesday, April 21 and complete the feedback form by May 5. View meeting materials in Public Consultation tab below. Yonge Street is an iconic destination in the heart of Downtown Toronto. The City of Toronto is recommending ways to increase pedestrian space and...
www.toronto.ca www.toronto.ca
 
It's always a head scratcher to hear people talk about how Yonge has so much traffic downtown and then to see it outside of rush hour with about as many cars as minor side streets between Queen and Bloor. Yet the sidewalks remain crowded throughout the day. Yonge doesn't have much traffic most of the time because the subway gets an incredible amount of people off the roads (and onto the sidewalk for the last part of their trip).
 
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Further to yesterday's note about the yongeTOmorrow consultation, I wrote up a blog post explaining what has happened to the project since it was approved by City Council in 2021. We need to show up to the April 21 public consultation and demand that the pedestrian zones be reinstated.

www.twowheeledpolitics.ca

WTF is up with yongeTOmorrow?

A blog about cycling and political advocacy based in Toronto, Canada. (#BikeTO)
www.twowheeledpolitics.ca www.twowheeledpolitics.ca
 
It's kinda insane how much of an opportunity was wasted with this project. Now it's going to be watered down due to Donald Ford's antics...
The road was already dug up between Gerrard and College for a couple of years to install the TTC elevator, why didn't they reconfigure the road while they were at it? There's already a lost car lane at Elm due to condo instruction, south of Dundas on the East side there's CafeTO or in the off season there are seemingly cars parked along there at all times.
 
Not sure how this is connected to the Premier. There is nothing in provincial legislation preventing the pedestrianization of Yonge St - just not permitting bike lanes (which the City seems to think they can still do anyway!).

The City makes plenty of poor decisions like this on their own.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Not sure how this is connected to the Premier. There is nothing in provincial legislation preventing the pedestrianization of Yonge St - just not permitting bike lanes (which the City seems to think they can still do anyway!).

The City makes plenty of poor decisions like this on their own.
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Which decision is it here that you think is poor?

****

With great respect to @TwoWheelPoli whose advocacy is essential and with whom I agree on much, the pedestrian priority concepts here were not going to fly. I've articulated those reasons, multiple times. By far, the most important is Yonge Shuttle Bus service and Yonge Night Bus service. These are not easily or practically diverted require one 3.3M travel lane per direction.

There are other issues as well when you model how displaced traffic will flow.

I'm much more irritated with the delays here (this was originally supposed to be completed by 2023..........)

And I have some concerns about quality. I would have preferred to have a competition to determine the street's aesthetic, vetted by experts, but with 3-4 choices going to the public for a vote. Ah well.

****

On pedstrianization more broadly, I still favour Kensington as a great place to start, and I favour delaying any road work there until the locals relent.

After that, I think it gets more challenging in that Toronto doesn't have a lot of 'mews' type streets lined with retail, that are conducive to this type of treatment.

But there are some. I think a real case could be made for portion of McCaul and Baldwin, and for Bellair, For major roads, I see King St as the best target. Not all of it, but 2-3 sections where it would be a pedestrian/transit mall. One from ~Simcoe to Widmer, another in the Financial District for one block and another in the east end.

This would make it impossible for cars to use a corridor across downtown, create showpiece opportunities in front of theatres and restaurant row, and in front of Commerce Court, and maybe in front of St. James. Logical spots for seating, and people watching.

Removing one more lane on Yonge for 1-2 blocks won't deliver the same benefit and creates too many headaches.
 
Can we take inspiration from Seoul's Insadong street? I visited this place last year and it made me think this is what Yonge would look like if it were pedestrianized.
The street is essentially all-pedestrian at certain times during the day, and has more pedestrian traffic than Yonge, but still allows essential traffic like supply and garbage trucks to go through.
Idk if buses are allowed go through this, but given that Yonge is wider, I'm thinking we can add a dedicated lane in case a shuttle is needed.

insadong3.jpg

insadong4.jpg
 
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