GO Transit Fleet Equipment and other

[generalcanada]

Unrealistic because they would rather do the bare minimum from the status quo. How can we call our transit "world class" when it cant even stack up to developing countries?

Yea, but is it bare minimum? this reads as going back to what they planned in 2018 with the business case
OOI really changed things when they proposed 3 minute service frequencies.

The draft fleet strategy confirms a plan for “longer distance destinations” to continue to run on “a typical North American commuter timetable whilst the inner core would be of a fixed interval Metro style service.”

To me this reads as "hourly to barrie, kitchener and niagara and frequent 15 minute or better service through the inner core like oakville

I dont see it saying them doing 30 minute service everywhere.

 

[WB62]

To me this reads as "hourly to barrie, kitchener and niagara and frequent 15 minute or better service through the inner core like oakville

I dont see it saying them doing 30 minute service everywhere.

Their updated official service targets are slightly more ambitious than what you’re predicting.

7.5 minute service will run all day on the UP Express, and during peak hours on LW, LE.

15 minute service will expand to:
Burlington
Bramalea
Maple
Unionville
Oshawa

30 minute service will run to:
Mount Pleasant
Mount Joy
Aurora

60 minute service will run to:
West Harbour
Kitchener
Bradford
Stouffville
Bowmanville

120 minute service will run to:
Allandale Waterfront
Old Elm

Express trains will operate all day to West Harbour, Kitchener, and Bowmanville, which means some express stations will see an additional train per hour per direction, in addition to the local service providing frequent service to local stations.

This mission is still good, if GO reaches this level of service it will be respectable.
It’s absolutely nothing compared to the service plan from the now-fired consortium, which will always sting to think about, but people in our region will still benefit significantly from this service plan.

GO won’t stop expanding after this goal is hit either, there’s always going to be an opportunity to increase service from every 15 minutes to every 10 minutes, or run more service to the outer stations.

 

[lastcommodore]

https://www.thetrillium.ca/news/municipalities-transit-and-infrastructure/shorter-more-frequent-go-train-plan-unlikely-to-materialize-leaked-document-12002596

I am upset at the delays in GO Expansion as much as everyone else on here- perhaps more than average, as I take the Milton/LSW and utilize mostly off-peak service- But I do want to add some context/my thoughts here:
- Metrolinx has been very averse to at-grade crossings, which is probably one of their biggest reasons to why they don't want to run more service during on-peak hours for the Lakeshores. Especially given that Metrolinx has and had some pretty significant crossings on their lines.
- Metrolinx absolutely already has the rail equipment and infra to run 15 minute or better frequencies off-peak on the Lakeshores and Kitchener. There's really no reason this isn't the case- save for refueling time. There's no reason there would be a lack of rail equipment during off-peak- in fact, there would be more as the one-way trains like Milton and RH are just lying around downtown waiting for the pm rush hour to be sent back home.
- From what I have heard and described many times on these threads, there is already a lack of personnel. I don't think more rail equipment would solve this. Now, I suspect (with no real basis) that such a shortage would be resolved faster than a rail equipment shortage, but i'm not knowledgeable on that.
- These contracts don't make sense to me as MX only has 90 locomotives. What MX needs is not chiefly more cabs and accessibility coaches, but more locomotives-- shorter consists are useless if the leftover cars have no engine to be attached to!

TL; DR Metrolinx already has the rail equipment to run 15 min off-peak or better where infra allows. Any more rail capacity primarily needs more locomotives, not cabs

 

[generalcanada]

Their updated official service targets are slightly more ambitious than what you’re predicting.

7.5 minute service will run all day on the UP Express, and during peak hours on LW, LE.

15 minute service will expand to:
Burlington
Bramalea
Maple
Unionville
Oshawa

30 minute service will run to:
Mount Pleasant
Mount Joy
Aurora

60 minute service will run to:
West Harbour
Kitchener
Bradford
Stouffville
Bowmanville

120 minute service will run to:
Allandale Waterfront
Old Elm

Express trains will operate all day to West Harbour, Kitchener, and Bowmanville, which means some express stations will see an additional train per hour per direction, in addition to the local service providing frequent service to local stations.

View attachment 722900

This mission is still good, if GO reaches this level of service it will be respectable.
It’s absolutely nothing compared to the service plan from the now-fired consortium, which will always sting to think about, but people in our region will still benefit significantly from this service plan.

GO won’t stop expanding after this goal is hit either, there’s always going to be an opportunity to increase service from every 15 minutes to every 10 minutes, or run more service to the outer stations.

right forgot about that graph. Point is just because we cant be as ambitious as Onexpress at least we get world-standard service

 

[cplchanb]

Yea, but is it bare minimum? this reads as going back to what they planned in 2018 with the business case
OOI really changed things when they proposed 3 minute service frequencies.

just nudging the project ahead enough to keep it alive until the next election. which seems exactly what is happening right now. thats the problem with public projects. its all on the whim of the ruling govt.
a private entity equivalent to brightline needs to take over rail operations.

 

[RU479]

This part of the article probably explains why the refurbished 200 - 214 cabs haven’t run in service

 

[cplchanb]

This part of the article probably explains why the refurbished 200 - 214 cabs haven’t run in service

people need to be fired. we spent millions on resurrecting relics all for them to be sent back into storage and half utilized.

 

[Bordercollie]

people need to be fired. we spent millions on resurrecting relics all for them to be sent back into storage and half utilized.

They can be used In mid train, so it's not a waste.

 

[RU479]

It is odd though considering GO has been rolling out the refurbished Series VII cabs (242 - 250) quite regularly into service.

Just now 242, 246, 248, and 249 are all on consists in the leading position, with 243,244, and 247 on an equipment move having lead trains before.

 

[urbanclient]

- Metrolinx has been very averse to at-grade crossings, which is probably one of their biggest reasons to why they don't want to run more service during on-peak hours for the Lakeshores. Especially given that Metrolinx has and had some pretty significant crossings on their lines.

Am I reading this correctly? They're averse to at-grade crossings, because more trains would inevitably increase train-car collisions? Or are they averse to grade separation of at-grade crossings?

 

[T3G]

we spent millions on resurrecting relics

Not a single "relic" was resurrected. Each and every single one of them were in regular use before they went for refurbishing as mid-train coaches. The only thing that was supposed to change was their renewed use as cab cars, which it now appears is in doubt.

More facts and less politician speak, please.

 

[lastcommodore]

Am I reading this correctly? They're averse to at-grade crossings, because more trains would inevitably increase train-car collisions? Or they are averse to grade separation of at-grade crossings?

The former. MX is both adverse to collisions, and adverse to causing traffic disruption. 3 minute headways both ways can be tolerated on a street with very little traffic, but across bigger secondary or primary roads during rush hour could cause problems with backup and traffic.
MX thankfully has shown itself willing to build more grade crossings, across all lines. If slowly.

 

[smallspy]

people need to be fired. we spent millions on resurrecting relics all for them to be sent back into storage and half utilized.

They were fired. Do you think OnXpress' operations staff is still around?

Dan

 

[urbanclient]

people need to be fired. we spent millions on resurrecting relics all for them to be sent back into storage and half utilized.

They were fired. Do you think OnXpress' operations staff is still around?

I am not sure the OnXpress operations staff are the same as the people refurbishing, or the people that ordered the refurbishment of rolling stock that may end up under-utilized?

I mean Urban Toronto's collective knowledge of this topic and today's article makes this pretty clear? Am I missing something here?

https://www.thetrillium.ca/news/municipalities-transit-and-infrastructure/shorter-more-frequent-go-train-plan-unlikely-to-materialize-leaked-document-12002596

 

[smallspy]

I am not sure the OnXpress operations staff are the same as the people refurbishing, or the people that ordered the refurbishment of rolling stock that may end up under-utilized?

It was the plan that they formulated that was then acted upon.

They came up with the plan to operate more, smaller trains. That got approved, and then went to equipment, who looked at how the current fleet was configured and what needed to change in order to operate that plan. Options were looked at, and decisions were made, and bids went out for tender.

It wasn't until later that it was realized that the people formulating the plan had no interest or ability to formulate plans that worked within the North American sphere of railroad operations.

Dan