Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

[ShonTron]

As I mentioned on BlueSky, the owners of the apiary profiled in the Star article have a property very close to Highway 417, southeast of Vankleek Hill.

If there’s one thing that’s more destructive to farmers and especially bee keepers, it’s four separated lanes of rural freeway.

 

[APTA-2048]

To show people the potential routes they will build?

I give up. I’m not gonna drag this discussion on for another page.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

So...this might sound ignorant...

Ford is about to annouce a new convention center. Many believe that it will be located by the EX, thus in the long term freeing up prime downtown real-estate. Might we be looking at the future station location of ALTO right in front of our faces? ?

Allow me to bring out my own personal proposal. If the mtcc is going to be demolished. Why not incorporate it into the proposed unnion station West at YYZ. It would instantly make the area a destination rather than a intermodal sorting terminal for YYZ passengers.

Mtcc is 700,000 sq ft (442,000 of which is exhibit space). A 3 level convention centre would occupy just over 200,000 sq ft of space or a square square with sides just under 500 ft..

That said I actually think the mtcc is ideally situated and would rather it be renovated in place rather than moved. It's access to Union station can't be beat.

 

[micheal_can]

But why would an Alto map have lines on it? It’s not like they are trying to follow a street grid like a subway.

To show the area where the less than 500m ROW will be?

 

[crs1026]

To show the area where the less than 500m ROW will be?

And start a land speculation rush? And give the landowners in that track a head start on arguing that the decision was arbitrary/flawed/ignored input.....and the track should be down the road a bit?

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

And start a land speculation rush? And give the landowners in that track a head start on arguing that the decision was arbitrary/flawed/ignored input.....and the track should be down the road a bit?

- Paul

So, really it is about land speculation vs NIMBYism?

 

[guavadelic]

That said I actually think the mtcc is ideally situated and would rather it be renovated in place rather than moved. It's access to Union station can't be beat.

That would be the sensible option but this is the Ford government we're dealing with here. A renovation isn't exciting enough for the developer lobby.

 

[guavadelic]

There was some speculation on here regarding future Alto pricing. The project's CEO shed some light on their intentions in a recent interview with CBC Radio Canada:

Prices to suit various budgets​

Martin Imbleau assures that Alto's plan is to develop a pricing structure that will allow people to benefit from the service according to different budgets.

"Students and low-income seniors will need to be offered an affordable service, and that's part of my mandate letter, it's written in black and white. We have to offer something inexpensive to those who can't afford it", he explains.
Mr. Imbleau states that Alto will also offer options similar to airline flights, with prices varying depending on whether booking in advance or at the last minute. There will also be tickets available for those with higher incomes.

"We have business classes where the competition is the plane, so we will be able to have prices that are higher than that [...] in Europe, there are price ranges at 10 or 15 euros, there are some at 150 euros, we will do similar things , adds Mr. Imbleau.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/2229871/construction-troncon-quebec-montreal-tgv-alto

 

[crs1026]

^I have no data or expertise to rely on, but I suspect pricing will be one of the last details to fall into place, and I suspect that a wide range of options will stay on the table until the bitter end.... and pricing may not stabilise until a decade after opening day.

We really haven't gotten to the economic side of things. We don't yet have a solid pricetag estimate, as that depends on the route selection and estimating of construction cost. In turn, we don't know how Alto will raise that capital and how much private investment will be leveraged. The more private investment, the more there will be pressure to maximise revenue, and that leads to fewer seats charging more, as operationally fewer seats means lower operating cost. Plus, we have no feel for how much appetite the public has to subsidy versus demanding operation in the black. Today's government may not be in power when that mandate is executed.

So, while I appreciate Mr Imbleau's insight, I don't take his vision to the bank. He is speculating just like the rest of us. The end strategy may be forced on him rather than a m@nagement decision. Time will tell.

- Paul

 

[zang]

There was some speculation on here regarding future Alto pricing. The project's CEO shed some light on their intentions in a recent interview with CBC Radio Canada:

"Students and low-income seniors will need to be offered an affordable service, and that's part of my mandate letter, it's written in black and white. We have to offer something inexpensive to those who can't afford it", he explains.
Mr. Imbleau states that Alto will also offer options similar to airline flights, with prices varying depending on whether booking in advance or at the last minute. There will also be tickets available for those with higher incomes.

So "dynamic pricing" will be in Alto as well. Greeeeeeaaaaaat.

FFS, can we stop with the gamification of pricing on this planet? Dynamic pricing will always incentivize the choice to not deliver service more frequently. Every. damn. time.

 

[PL1]

So "dynamic pricing" will be in Alto as well. Greeeeeeaaaaaat.

FFS, can we stop with the gamification of pricing on this planet? Dynamic pricing will always incentivize increasing the choice to not deliver service more frequently. Every. damn. time.

But consultants have shown....
/S

 

[crs1026]

So "dynamic pricing" will be in Alto as well. Greeeeeeaaaaaat.

FFS, can we stop with the gamification of pricing on this planet? Dynamic pricing will always incentivize increasing the choice to not deliver service more frequently. Every. damn. time.

One person's game is another person's craft.

Nothing is a bigger "gamification" of pricing than decreeing that some group must have a mandated price, based on some view of social or political imperatives..... and then insisting that an enterprise pretend that their capital and operating costs actually conform to that desired price. Check out hydro rates, or car insurance. In the worst case - TTC rates - the enterprise has to make bad decisions about managing its business because someone is suppressing their per-ride revenue.

If the per-seat cost of Alto turns out to be higher than what a student can afford, it is what it is. Government can react to that and do things to mitigate that - any number of direct subsidies, tax benefits, or "programs". Nothing wrong with that, so long as the manipulation isn't baked in such that the true cost is concealed.....and so long as the government remains accountable for the taxpayer cost of the manipulation.

If students are relieved of the full per seat cost, why should business travellers pay more than their per seat cost? Business travel is charged a premium over cost, it's a very lucrative segment. Maybe the system is already serving the ideological end you are looking for.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

^I have no data or expertise to rely on, but I suspect pricing will be one of the last details to fall into place, and I suspect that a wide range of options will stay on the table until the bitter end.... and pricing may not stabilise until a decade after opening day.

We really haven't gotten to the economic side of things. We don't yet have a solid pricetag estimate, as that depends on the route selection and estimating of construction cost. In turn, we don't know how Alto will raise that capital and how much private investment will be leveraged. The more private investment, the more there will be pressure to maximise revenue, and that leads to fewer seats charging more, as operationally fewer seats means lower operating cost. Plus, we have no feel for how much appetite the public has to subsidy versus demanding operation in the black. Today's government may not be in power when that mandate is executed.

So, while I appreciate Mr Imbleau's insight, I don't take his vision to the bank. He is speculating just like the rest of us. The end strategy may be forced on him rather than a m@nagement decision. Time will tell.

- Paul

Even Ontario, which is a whole lot closer to service, is keeping any pricing information close to its vest.

I suspect none of the Alto senior staff will be around for the inaugural run.

 

[micheal_can]

Even Ontario, which is a whole lot closer to service, is keeping any pricing information close to its vest.

I suspect none of the Alto senior staff will be around for the inaugural run.

Yeah... There is no pricing on the Northlander. The speculation is wild though.

So, for ALTO, we have 15 years to speculate.

 

[Bordercollie]

Alto high-speed rail: Protesters in Hawkesbury oppose train https://share.google/aj0mFXYGGvu9p6c0m

The land that they need is such a small corridor. People imagine it to be some huge concrete structure.

Compared to building a highway, this is much less Intrusive.