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Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

lenaitch said:
Some of the arguments I see on social media revert to the point that 'people moved to' rural areas to avoid noise, vibration, pollution, etc. etc. I often get the sense that many people who 'move to' the rurals want time to stop the day after they get there
Click to expand...

I am sympathetic to some of their complaints.

But then you get NIMBYs who resort to the usual nonsense. "This is for the elites." That makes me less sympathetic.
 
kEiThZ said:
I am sympathetic to some of their complaints.

But then you get NIMBYs who resort to the usual nonsense. "This is for the elites." That makes me less sympathetic.
Click to expand...

Seeing the complaints show up in my FB feed. I wonder if this is just anti Liberal government sentiment (or anti government period), under the guise of NIMBY'ism and environmentalism
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Seeing the complaints show up in my FB feed. I wonder if this is just anti Liberal government sentiment (or anti government period), under the guise of NIMBY'ism and environmentalism
Click to expand...
Does that really matter? Some will just whine and put it under a group that is going to amplify that noise. We should listen, investigate the concerns, and either resolve them, or we accept that they may be part of the realities of this project.
 
Thaboss said:
So...this might sound ignorant...

Ford is about to annouce a new convention center. Many believe that it will be located by the EX, thus in the long term freeing up prime downtown real-estate. Might we be looking at the future station location of ALTO right in front of our faces? ?
Click to expand...
You mean this new convention center or the old one?
The new one does not make sense to be a station for ALTO. The old one...maybe? The thing is still about the tracks.
 
I hope not. Huge delay while the new center is designed, approved, and built before the old one can be demo’ed so new station can be built.
Faster to put existing tracks in a tunnel and then put the new station over top.

- Paul
 
Thaboss said:
So...this might sound ignorant...

Ford is about to annouce a new convention center. Many believe that it will be located by the EX, thus in the long term freeing up prime downtown real-estate. Might we be looking at the future station location of ALTO right in front of our faces? ?
Click to expand...

Using Ex grounds would explain the much larger than necessary [for planned Ontario Place buildings] scope of Bill 68.
 
Alto isn't interested in doing engineering before alignment choice when Cadence (Atkins) will step in to handle the mitigation. Alto did just hired a Masters in Geotech (Very intelligent according to D. Cook, VP systems). We decided to do their work for them (www.altohsrcitizenresearch.ca). We will release the business analysis over the next couple of weeks based on experience from hundreds of overseas projects and factoring in the Canadian track record. Using realistic figures (cost to build over-run) and the TRAM (McGill) methodology, and also including line items such as maintenance costs - yes the elephant is cheap but then you have to feed it - forget 48year sustainability, the model completely breaks and for worst case scenarios (not as bad as HS2 or Cal HSR) requires >0.5T of government subsidy over the 50 year timeframe. This is not Eglington or the O-train but a system them requires many order of magnitude more engineering precision during its lifecycle.. The opportunity cost is staggering.
 
AJhyett said:
Alto isn't interested in doing engineering before alignment choice when Cadence (Atkins) will step in to handle the mitigation.
Click to expand...
This seems very much at odds with the responses that myself and other have gotten from their presentations thus far. They have done a ton of engineering - they just haven't done the engineering that you want.

Until you can get your facts straight, there's no point in dealing with the rest of your commentary.

Dan
 
AJhyett said:
Alto isn't interested in doing engineering before alignment choice when Cadence (Atkins) will step in to handle the mitigation. Alto did just hired a Masters in Geotech (Very intelligent according to D. Cook, VP systems). We decided to do their work for them (www.altohsrcitizenresearch.ca). We will release the business analysis over the next couple of weeks based on experience from hundreds of overseas projects and factoring in the Canadian track record. Using realistic figures (cost to build over-run) and the TRAM (McGill) methodology, and also including line items such as maintenance costs - yes the elephant is cheap but then you have to feed it - forget 48year sustainability, the model completely breaks and for worst case scenarios (not as bad as HS2 or Cal HSR) requires >0.5T of government subsidy over the 50 year timeframe. This is not Eglington or the O-train but a system them requires many order of magnitude more engineering precision during its lifecycle.. The opportunity cost is staggering.
Click to expand...
a variant of that site was posted awhile ago. Im sure they have different conclusions otherwise they wouldnt be looking at it.
 
The Alto line has unfortunately been seeing opposition from rural landowners along the route and - surprise surprise - Conservative MP's such as Scott Reid. Basically, the CPC wants to keep Canada an international embarrassment, though Alto still has the obligation to minimize land acquisitions and ensure fair compensation.

www.thestar.com

Dozens of Ontario farming communities fear losing businesses and land to Canada’s new high-speed train line

The federal government has backed plans to build a rail capable of travelling 300 km/h between Toronto and Quebec City, a project that could lead to the most expropriations of any project in Canadian history.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
 
See also this from CP24. https://www.cp24.com/news/canada/2026/03/04/high-speed-rail-project-runs-into-rural-opposition/

1772633696158.png
 
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