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Ontario Line Extension West of Ontario Place (Speculation)

Humber Bay will eventually get a GO station with electrified Lakeshore West trains every 15mins. And it has the Queen streetcar in a dedicated ROW along Queensway. There is absolutely no reason to duplicate service with an OL subway extension.
 
cereal said:
Humber Bay will eventually get a GO station with electrified Lakeshore West trains every 15mins. And it has the Queen streetcar in a dedicated ROW along Queensway. There is absolutely no reason to duplicate service with an OL subway extension.
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The main benefit would be to connect the area to the growing centre at Kipling (and to Line 2)
 
duffo said:
The main benefit would be to connect the area to the growing centre at Kipling (and to Line 2)
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I can't imagine that potential ridership between Kipling Centre and Humberbay would ever amount to much. They are both basically 'bedroom' communities with zero commercial/office development proposals on the horizon.

It would be silly to ignore the existing bursting demand on Jane or Dufferin and instead build duplicated service out to Humberbay.
 
cereal said:
I can't imagine that potential ridership between Kipling Centre and Humberbay would ever amount to much. They are both basically 'bedroom' communities with zero commercial/office development proposals on the horizon.

It would be silly to ignore the existing bursting demand on Jane or Dufferin and instead build duplicated service out to Humberbay.
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At a billion dollars per km for OL, I think we should focus on getting GO Expansion done with strong fare integration and see what that does to travel patterns. That might do a lot to relieve bus lines by intercepting riders in more places. A lot of the suggested alignments are highly duplicative of Lakeshore West, Kitchener Line/UP Express, etc. Let's just get to job done on those first.
 
Natika33 said:
Dufferin & Jane are both within the top 10 most crowded bus routes, so I'd like to see two solutions - one each. For the Ontario line, I think I'd prefer a Jane routing because you could make a case to take care of the Humber Bay area along the way.
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Both could in theory warrant their own separate metro line and if each had their own metro line would the OL even need a western extensions?

Hard to make a compelling case for any one specific route over another suggested in this thread. I get that extending existing metro lines is much easier than starting new ones, but Toronto has some weird obsession with the idea of a one seat ride to wherever. Might be better to just build more lines ultimately.
 
duty free said:
Both could in theory warrant their own separate metro line and if each had their own metro line would the OL even need a western extensions?

Hard to make a compelling case for any one specific route over another suggested in this thread. I get that extending existing metro lines is much easier than starting new ones, but Toronto has some weird obsession with the idea of a one seat ride to wherever. Might be better to just build more lines ultimately.
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Agree we don't need to focus on extensions over new lines when not warranted. As I didn't know the Lakeshore West line was going to get a Humber Bay stop when I wrote above, extending up Dufferin does seem pretty compelling though given the Ontario Line is set now to end a block away at Exhibition station. So maybe Jane is the one that needs a new line.
 
Natika33 said:
Dufferin & Jane are both within the top 10 most crowded bus routes, so I'd like to see two solutions - one each. For the Ontario line, I think I'd prefer a Jane routing because you could make a case to take care of the Humber Bay area along the way.
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If Jane was chosen: I'd rather see a routing through Roncesvalles to Dundas West, then up the rail corridor with 1-2 stations in the junction before turning onto Jane
 
goodcitywhenfinished said:
If Jane was chosen: I'd rather see a routing through Roncesvalles to Dundas West, then up the rail corridor with 1-2 stations in the junction before turning onto Jane
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Assuming the line would still cover the busiest section of Jane, that would be a sensible route. Roncy is a nice retail strip that could use a bit more connectivity.
 
Saw you guys talking about an extension up Jane so I made a map to visualize it. For the stops I followed the subway standard of every 800m-1km although it does increase to 1-2km north of Eglinton where density drops off. I couldn't really think of what the northern terminus for the western extension could be since Jane and Steeles isn't exactly a bustling part of the city. You could go north in Vaughan either to an interchange with Line 1 at Highway 407 or parallel line 1 to VMC. You could also have the line turn east after Shoreham and run to a Line 1 interchange at York U. As well you'll notice I don't have a stop at Jane & Steeles, and that's for 2 reasons. 1) The Black Creek neighbourhood would be far better served by a stop at Shoreham Drive which is right in the centre of the area and has multiple apartment blocks and I believe a large TCH community. 2) The Black Creek runs directly under the Jane & Steeles intersection which means a stop there would need to be built under the creek (ala York Mills) which would increase both the cost and complexity of construction. Even if you elevated the line the stop at Shoreham would still put far more people within walking distance of the station then a stop at Steeles would. Finally I really wish the stop at Jane & Finch could be called Driftwood to fit better with the rest of the station names.

OLWest_Jane.png


Geographic map:
MapGeo.png
 
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JSF-1 said:
Saw you guys talking about an extension up Jane so I made a map to visualize it. For the stops I followed the subway standard of every 800m-1km although it does increase to 1-2km north of Eglinton where density drops off. I couldn't really think of what the northern terminus for the western extension could be since Jane and Steeles isn't exactly a bustling part of the city. You could go north in Vaughan either to an interchange with Line 1 at Highway 407 or parallel line 1 to VMC. You could also have the line turn east after Shoreham and run to a Line 1 interchange at York U. As well you'll notice I don't have a stop at Jane & Steeles, and that's for 2 reasons. 1) The Black Creek neighbourhood would be far better served by a stop at Shoreham Drive which is right in the centre of the area and has multiple apartment blocks and I believe a large TCH community. 2) The Black Creek runs directly under the Jane & Steeles intersection which means a stop there would need to be built under the creek (ala York Mills) which would increase both the cost and complexity of construction. Even if you elevated the line the stop at Shoreham would still put far more people within walking distance of the station then a stop at Steeles would. Finally I really wish the stop at Jane & Finch could be called Driftwood to fit better with the rest of the station names.

View attachment 718660

Geographic map:
View attachment 718659
Click to expand...
Thank you for putting some good thought into this! Not a bad plan, not bad at all.
 
JSF-1 said:
Saw you guys talking about an extension up Jane so I made a map to visualize it. For the stops I followed the subway standard of every 800m-1km although it does increase to 1-2km north of Eglinton where density drops off. I couldn't really think of what the northern terminus for the western extension could be since Jane and Steeles isn't exactly a bustling part of the city. You could go north in Vaughan either to an interchange with Line 1 at Highway 407 or parallel line 1 to VMC. You could also have the line turn east after Shoreham and run to a Line 1 interchange at York U. As well you'll notice I don't have a stop at Jane & Steeles, and that's for 2 reasons. 1) The Black Creek neighbourhood would be far better served by a stop at Shoreham Drive which is right in the centre of the area and has multiple apartment blocks and I believe a large TCH community. 2) The Black Creek runs directly under the Jane & Steeles intersection which means a stop there would need to be built under the creek (ala York Mills) which would increase both the cost and complexity of construction. Even if you elevated the line the stop at Shoreham would still put far more people within walking distance of the station then a stop at Steeles would. Finally I really wish the stop at Jane & Finch could be called Driftwood to fit better with the rest of the station names.

View attachment 718660

Geographic map:
View attachment 718659
Click to expand...
Because we already know we are getting almost-metro service on UP in the future (St. Clair / Old Weston station, 7.5 min headways, longer trains), I think it would likely be better to bend this west earlier to avoid duplicative service. After Dundas West, you could follow Dundas with a station at Keele (put main station building in the parking lot at the corner), then another at Jane (Lambton) that has a terminal for the 512 streetcar, then follow Jane for an interchange with Eglinton Flats (Jane/Eglinton), then follow your alignment from Brookhaven onwards. Might be questionable whether you need a stop at Howard Park Ave. too, if its only for streetcar interchange.
 
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JSF-1 said:
Saw you guys talking about an extension up Jane so I made a map to visualize it. For the stops I followed the subway standard of every 800m-1km although it does increase to 1-2km north of Eglinton where density drops off. I couldn't really think of what the northern terminus for the western extension could be since Jane and Steeles isn't exactly a bustling part of the city. You could go north in Vaughan either to an interchange with Line 1 at Highway 407 or parallel line 1 to VMC. You could also have the line turn east after Shoreham and run to a Line 1 interchange at York U. As well you'll notice I don't have a stop at Jane & Steeles, and that's for 2 reasons. 1) The Black Creek neighbourhood would be far better served by a stop at Shoreham Drive which is right in the centre of the area and has multiple apartment blocks and I believe a large TCH community. 2) The Black Creek runs directly under the Jane & Steeles intersection which means a stop there would need to be built under the creek (ala York Mills) which would increase both the cost and complexity of construction. Even if you elevated the line the stop at Shoreham would still put far more people within walking distance of the station then a stop at Steeles would. Finally I really wish the stop at Jane & Finch could be called Driftwood to fit better with the rest of the station names.

View attachment 718660

Geographic map:
View attachment 718659
Click to expand...

I noticed you've given alternate names to the existing Ontario Line stations, but you've left the name Queen untouched. I know this is the way Metrolinx is doing things these days, but I really, really hate it. Same as Eglinton. Leaving interchange station names unchanged so that the name doesn't make sense is not good for way finding. Tourists aren't going to know that the "Queen" stop on the "Queen" line is at Yonge, just as they aren't going to know that the "Eglinton" stop on the "Eglinton" line is at Yonge. God I hate how Metrolinx has been naming things these days. "Old Elm", "Eglinton", "Brampton Innovation District", "Allandale Waterfront", "East Harbour", "West Harbour". Generic, uninspired, unhelpful, and not even good for way finding. Metrolinx needs to fire the consultants they got for station naming.

Sorry this wasn't about you. I like your map and I think it looks good.
 
Made another map, this one looking at a Queensway alignment which I know has also been discussed. The obvious benefit to this alignment would be connections to the Humber Bay area and Sherway Gardens, however there are also some draw backs.
The first one is the obvious lack of a north-south route in the city's west end which would now need to be solved by a different line. Another issue could be the crossing of the Humber River and Mimico Creek which if this line was to follow an underground alignment would require the stops at Swansea and Humber Bay to be deep underground. This could be mitigated by building on a surface/elevated alignment however space can become pretty tight in that area so I am not sure if that is possible. The hardest part about making this map was coming up with names for the stops at Kipling and Islington since there isn't much in the way of local landmarks or neighbourhood names. Officially that part of the city is part of "The Queensway" neighbourhood which is really unintuitive in this case.

OLWest_Queensway.png


Geographic map:
MapGeo2.png
 
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